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+---- Thread: "Destined" for GNC (/showthread.php?tid=311)
"Destined" for GNC - YesYourNigel - Oct 29 2024
I once saw a comment saying "How is a little girl supposed to dream of growing up to be a construction worker if she gets catcalled every time she passes by a construction site?" and it made me think of how we tend to approach gender nonconformity. We assume that any woman who is GNC must've had this as her entire life goal, that she had to be "the chosen one", someone who could name every single airplane model at 3 years old and who strived to get a PhD in electrical engineering the second she was asked what she wanted to be when she grew up.
In reality, while STEM and handyperson skills are certainly a part of male socialisation that they boys are immersed in from their earliest years, plenty of men do not dream or feel destined to make careers in them or turn it into an obsession, which is why a lot of trades and construction struggle with getting workers. They go into these professions because they are lucrative, or simply because they need money. Women are seen as needing an exceptional reason to do so - they had to have been destined for this, they had to have it in their genes, they must just somehow inherently, biologically be different from all those other women who do completely different things like arts and crafts (which couldn't possibly transition into any kind of trades skill, oh no). And ofc they have to be absolute geniuses to justify even dipping their fingers in it - they can't possibly be average or heaven forbid struggle.
In reality, femininity and its limitations are actively harmful to women, and that's all the reason women should have to forego it. Women do not need to be obsessed with roleplaying as men or be destined to be specifically a welder with a special welder brain in order to conclude that femininity is a shit deal for them and to live outside of its confines. Ofc the women drawn to these things will often have a long history of interest in these things, but that's precisely because these fields are so hostile to women in general, let alone average women. It's survivorship bias.
Society in general loves the idea of "talent" and people having certain "brains" for something, with plenty of research expended into seeking to find some special "classical music brain gene" to explain it all. The narrative for all people is defined by an exceptional minority, and people who struggle due to lacking the money, safety net and socialisation of more successful individuals are simply told to give up because they're not meant to do something. But this ofc goes beyond mere professions, and into presentation as well. Women see other GNC women and they assume "Well, they must've always been this way, they're not like us other gals", instead of realising that that could be them. All female people by virtue of being recognised as female are saddled with femininity and all women are harmed by it. Countering this harm and expanding your possibilities as much as you can is a matter of survival for ALL women, not just the ones with sufficiently blue-ish brains
RE: "Destined" for GNC - Clover - Nov 01 2024
Quote:Society in general loves the idea of "talent" and people having certain "brains" for something, with plenty of research expended into seeking to find some special "classical music brain gene" to explain it all. The narrative for all people is defined by an exceptional minority, and people who struggle due to lacking the money, safety net and socialisation of more successful individuals are simply told to give up because they're not meant to do something. But this ofc goes beyond mere professions, and into presentation as well. Women see other GNC women and they assume "Well, they must've always been this way, they're not like us other gals", instead of realising that that could be them.
That's a great observation. As someone who was decently good at art and has been in art circles, there is a joke about the dismissiveness of the "you're so talented" statement, because artists know that drawing/painting/etc. is a skill takes time, effort, and perseverance. Usually people who comment about talent also claim "I wish I could do that", well, what's stopping them? Motivation and commitment, which is a personal thing. That's why they like the "you're so talented" "compliment." It makes it seem as if the ability to do something is "innate" which gives them the convenient "excuse" that the reason they can't do it is because they're just not "born with it."
Similarly, an idea that some women are just "destined" for GNC is following the same vein. Being a GNC woman means facing a lot of societal pushback. It's not comfortable to go against the deep sexist status quo. The ability to dismiss GNC women as more "blue-brained" or "masculine" is a convenient way for women to be able to compartmentalize the sexism women as a class face in society.
Andrea Dworkin Many women, I think, resist feminism because it is an agony to be fully conscious of the brutal misogyny which permeates culture, society, and all personal relationships.
RE: "Destined" for GNC - YesYourNigel - Nov 04 2024
(Nov 01 2024, 12:21 PM)Clover As someone who was decently good at art and has been in art circles, there is a joke about the dismissiveness of the "you're so talented" statement, because artists know that drawing/painting/etc. is a skill takes time, effort, and perseverance.
Aside from art, another area it's especially popular in is math skills. People can't let go of the idea that anyone bad at maths simply doesn't have the right brain for it because it gives the people bad at math an easy way out, and those who are good at it an ego boost that they're some kind of special superhuman.
Ultimately the question of talent is completely irrelevant for the vast majority of people of average intelligence trying to learn a skill that will be necessary to navigate day-to-day life and it's ridiculous to act as if the ability to do calculus (something that even the brainiest geniuses in history had no conception of until only a few centuries ago) is in any way inherent and genetic compared to the ability to, say, use a computer, or drive a car. But this nebulous idea of "talent" gets used to put a cap on people's potential and to avoid reconsidering systems like gender roles or education. If the talent cap is real, it's not going to show at any normal level, let alone at the level of education, it's going to show in a 1-in-100000 genius working at the frontiers of the field.
What makes it especially insidious in this case is that things like math or handyperson skills or merely the ability to not obsess over how you look lest you feel like a troll are crucial to independent living and confidence, which has historically been denied to women. Men have monopolised valuable skills, practical presentation and societal power for a reason, and women are told by liberal feminists of all people that if pushing back on societal gender norms you've been spoon-fed all your life results in negative emotions, well surely it's just because you have a special pink brain that evolved to like modern trends of makeup and high heels and being a housewife! And real misogyny is thinking there is something wrong with these things! Which is why we have to write off the GNC women as just blue-brained "one of the guys" gals lest it starts sounding like they think there IS something bad about wearing 3 inch nails while trying to fix a leaky pipe, or that they want us all to look like ugly hairy man-hating lesbians (not that there's anything wrong with looking like that!!!)
The whole gendersoul concept has already been in place in society at large and popularised in progressive circles by liberal feminists before trans activism decided to medicalise it.