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+--- Thread: Women are privileged and oppressed for the exact same thing (/showthread.php?tid=433)
Women are privileged and oppressed for the exact same thing - YesYourNigel - Dec 9 2024
Being female is the only identity I can think of where the person is simultaneously oppressed for being female, as in, for having a female body and all the associated harmful misogynistic expectations of femininity, of inferiority, of submission etc. etc. and also privileged beyond compare for these exact same traits! Under trans ideology, being female, aka actually being female as opposed to the far more oppressed identity of merely wishing you were female, means you are privileged because you actually have female body and genitalia (that is objectified, disregarded and seen as inferior to men), because you're actually forced into femininity and graded according to beauty standards (that are objectively harmful to you and both destructive to your self-esteem and affirming to male supremacist ideas on women being sex objects), because you're actually seen as a woman who is fundamentally inferior rather than just a failed man who should be trying to profit off of his male privileges more, and because, unbeknownst to you and anyone around you, you totally have a magical gendersoul that matches your body despite it being completely undetectable and unnoticeable due to you being cis (which only makes you more privileged due to not suffering as much as poor transwomen's super turbo painful gendersouls).
Ok well, we can tell that you're a bit iffy on this whole "gendersoul" thing, although we assure you it is backed by scientific evidence (we gathered a bunch of trans people who all told us they can feel their gendersoul is there, so check-mate, atheists). Here's some evidence of how gendersouls manifest in people who aren't trans:
If you feel gender euphoric from wearing heels or having to be meek and submissive or getting plastic surgery after a lifetime of being told that not doing so makes you an ogre or an invisible uggo, that's just your gendersoul manifesting itself to you. No, it's not misogyny or the patriarchy making women feel this, it's gendersouls, something we're all born with (I'm not entirely sure why a metaphysical gendersoul would react to a modern invention like stillettos, but I'm certain this is what is causing it)! Patriarchy is, like, telling a woman she shouldn't be wearing heels, or that makeup isn't empowering. The fact that you can do these things without being shamed for it due to being a man who's supposed to be above being a sex objects proves that you're privileged over transwomen! You will never know their pain!
On the other hand, if you ever feel dysphoric from how objectively uncomfortable and traumatising your privileged oppressive cis female existence is, good news! You must have a boysoul then! Real women would feel overjoyed at the possibility of being able to play out female gender roles and actually gaining patriarchal approval for it, as evidenced by transwomen. So either transition or stop complaining about your cis privilege of being expected to be feminine and inferior due to being female.
RE: Women are privileged and oppressed for the exact same thing - Clover - Dec 11 2024
This trans double standard is one of the first things to form a crack in my support of TIPs/TRAs. I was kind of okay with the idea of men thinking they are women, even though I still didn't really understand the logic of a "gender soul". Added to the fact that I was already pro-gender non-conformity, I didn't see an issue with men wanting to do stereotypically "feminine" things. (This is ignoring the fact a large part of "femininity" is female subordination, I was only thinking about the "surface level" things like appearance, aesthetics, and hobbies/interests.)
One of the first instances that gave me a bad vibe was seeing some TIM comic on Reddit where the TIM character felt "validated" and happy because he was catcalled, which meant he was "seen as a woman." And as someone who has been cat-called, it is not a pleasant experience. It is demeaning and makes you feel objectified. So the fact that a "transwoman", as I viewed them at the time, was actually glorifying and romanticizing such a negative experience of being a woman made me feel pretty grossed out.
Then came, as your post explains, the concept of "cis" women being "privileged" to "be allowed" to be "feminine" without "repercussions." It was so completely tone-deaf that those were the major cracks that caused me to be annoyed with TIMs and questioning my support for the trans movement. Women have been forced to be "feminine" for decades, now that we're finally making a decent amount of progressive strides in women being able to have higher education and careers in parts of the world, coincidentally these same parts of the world now have a bunch of fetishistic men who can comfortably wear knee high socks and car ears and talk about their "womanly souls" and berate "cis" women for not understanding their pains and keep their high paying careers in place while they bully women because they're such an "oppressed minority"... Give me a fucking break.
Then, of course when women pushed back and said women don't actually enjoy being oppressed under patriarchal systems, instead of these penis-for-brains men stopping and seriously considering "hey, maybe women are human and human beings don't want to be oppressed..?" they decide "no it's the stupid defective women who don't want to be oppressed who are wrong!" and they offer us "you must really be a man, you have a male soul!" as some pathetic "solution" to let them keep them female subordination fetish party going.
And then of course, once I learned more about the concept of gender, in terms of how much societal expectations of female subordination and male dominance had a large part to do with it, it's hard to not see transgender-identifying men's aggressive demands to be seen as "women" as anything other than a continuance of their socialized male behavior.