"The taboo trans question—Why can't we ask what drives people to change sex?" (2022)

cloven hooves The Personal Is Political Gender Critical Article "The taboo trans question—Why can't we ask what drives people to change sex?" (2022)

Article "The taboo trans question—Why can't we ask what drives people to change sex?" (2022)

Article "The taboo trans question—Why can't we ask what drives people to change sex?" (2022)

komorebi
“I am not free while any woman is unfree, even when her shackles are very different from my own.” – Audre Lorde

134

Jan 15 2025, 1:48 PM

#1

Sarah Ditum, UnHerd, March 20, 2022. Archive link here.

I've found this to be a very useful article for bringing up the topic of AGP, though it may not be written gently enough for the uninitiated—I would be more likely to show it to someone who was already asking questions. Emphasizing the sexual component behind male transition helps to break the illusion many well-meaning libfems labor under that they are "women just like us."

Edited Jan 15 2025, 9:03 PM by komorebi. Edit Reason: grammar

komorebi

“I am not free while any woman is unfree, even when her shackles are very different from my own.” – Audre Lorde

Jan 15 2025, 1:48 PM #1

Sarah Ditum, UnHerd, March 20, 2022. Archive link here.

I've found this to be a very useful article for bringing up the topic of AGP, though it may not be written gently enough for the uninitiated—I would be more likely to show it to someone who was already asking questions. Emphasizing the sexual component behind male transition helps to break the illusion many well-meaning libfems labor under that they are "women just like us."

Clover
Kozlik's regular account 🍀🐐

452

Yesterday, 7:25 PM

#2

Quote:But they can only do this because their wives are there to do the less attractive but equally feminine work of looking after them. Wives help with makeup; wives advise on clothes. Wives continue to do all the things wives traditionally do. “For twenty years he couldn’t help with the dishes because he was watching football. Now he can’t help because he’s doing his nails. Is that different?” grouches one woman[.]

This is a good example of how no matter if a man transitions, his male entitlement of expecting women around him to cater to his chosen lifestyle still exists. I also think that's why many "transwidows" peak, they get to see just how sexist their male partner is, and exactly how little he thinks of women and how shallow he views women.

While yeah, I think this piece is probably a bit much for the uninitiated, I do think some of the "TIMs telling on themselves" sources within it could possibly be good discussion starters. Like what woman really would agree that "to be female" can be summarized as being "an open mouth, an expectant asshole, blank, blank eyes"? That is the sexist shit that peaks people. But I suppose it depends on the person.

Edited Yesterday, 7:28 PM by Clover.

Clover

Kozlik's regular account 🍀🐐

Yesterday, 7:25 PM #2

Quote:But they can only do this because their wives are there to do the less attractive but equally feminine work of looking after them. Wives help with makeup; wives advise on clothes. Wives continue to do all the things wives traditionally do. “For twenty years he couldn’t help with the dishes because he was watching football. Now he can’t help because he’s doing his nails. Is that different?” grouches one woman[.]

This is a good example of how no matter if a man transitions, his male entitlement of expecting women around him to cater to his chosen lifestyle still exists. I also think that's why many "transwidows" peak, they get to see just how sexist their male partner is, and exactly how little he thinks of women and how shallow he views women.

While yeah, I think this piece is probably a bit much for the uninitiated, I do think some of the "TIMs telling on themselves" sources within it could possibly be good discussion starters. Like what woman really would agree that "to be female" can be summarized as being "an open mouth, an expectant asshole, blank, blank eyes"? That is the sexist shit that peaks people. But I suppose it depends on the person.

komorebi
“I am not free while any woman is unfree, even when her shackles are very different from my own.” – Audre Lorde

134

Today, 12:53 AM

#3

Note: Just reiterating some of the conclusions of the article here, but writing out these thoughts in case it'll be helpful to anyone trying to change minds.

I like this article particularly because it relies on direct quotes from famous TIMs. This is all stuff that they felt comfortable writing in actual published works, under their own names; it's not dirt that was dug up from their private SM accounts or something. And the fact is that the things that they say are still very, very male.

A lot of well-meaning libfems may have TIMs in their lives that they care about, and so talking to them about gendercrit is difficult because to them it's not "just" academic or philosophical, it's something that affects the lives of people they love. Some have bought into the mantra "trans women are women" wholesale; others believe in the whole "polite lie" deal where we all pretend they are women because they are so very sad and harmless and it would make them feel better. Either way, it can be a lot harder to break through, and they may get a lot more defensive when you try to bring up the topic.

So, something like this is good because it serves as a kind of evidence that simply being sad or hating your male body doesn't automatically mean that you actually empathize with women. It shows that, at least for some of them, it's just about sex—and in particular, a very gross, female-objectifying, male-gazey notion of sex. There's a reason why even though Andrea Long Chu and all the rest may make the rounds in lists of famous TIMs or queer people that we should all supposedly look up to, these quotes don't show up printed next to their faces.

The undeniable maleness of their words is a good wedge from which you can expand from one basic-but-true idea (that just because these people "identify as women," it didn't change their very male approach to sex and objectifying women) to more "taboo"-but-still-true thoughts. Like...perhaps there are other things that don't change about them? Like their propensity to be dangerous to women, or, y'know, just the fact that they are male. 🤣

komorebi

“I am not free while any woman is unfree, even when her shackles are very different from my own.” – Audre Lorde

Today, 12:53 AM #3

Note: Just reiterating some of the conclusions of the article here, but writing out these thoughts in case it'll be helpful to anyone trying to change minds.

I like this article particularly because it relies on direct quotes from famous TIMs. This is all stuff that they felt comfortable writing in actual published works, under their own names; it's not dirt that was dug up from their private SM accounts or something. And the fact is that the things that they say are still very, very male.

A lot of well-meaning libfems may have TIMs in their lives that they care about, and so talking to them about gendercrit is difficult because to them it's not "just" academic or philosophical, it's something that affects the lives of people they love. Some have bought into the mantra "trans women are women" wholesale; others believe in the whole "polite lie" deal where we all pretend they are women because they are so very sad and harmless and it would make them feel better. Either way, it can be a lot harder to break through, and they may get a lot more defensive when you try to bring up the topic.

So, something like this is good because it serves as a kind of evidence that simply being sad or hating your male body doesn't automatically mean that you actually empathize with women. It shows that, at least for some of them, it's just about sex—and in particular, a very gross, female-objectifying, male-gazey notion of sex. There's a reason why even though Andrea Long Chu and all the rest may make the rounds in lists of famous TIMs or queer people that we should all supposedly look up to, these quotes don't show up printed next to their faces.

The undeniable maleness of their words is a good wedge from which you can expand from one basic-but-true idea (that just because these people "identify as women," it didn't change their very male approach to sex and objectifying women) to more "taboo"-but-still-true thoughts. Like...perhaps there are other things that don't change about them? Like their propensity to be dangerous to women, or, y'know, just the fact that they are male. 🤣

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