What is your opinion on Kellie Jay Keen?

cloven hooves The Personal Is Political Women's Rights What is your opinion on Kellie Jay Keen?

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flytraps_

Jan 28 2025, 12:27 PM

I think most radical feminists have a more nuanced opinion of her than what I’ve recently seen on ovarit. There’s a thread where one woman was getting downvoted because she rightfully pointed out that KJK isn’t gender critical.

I pointed out she’s not exactly a feminist, and is more of a conservative. But the general consensus on the ovarit thread appeared to be that since KJK criticizes trans politics, she’s gender critical, and she’s therefore radical feminist, or at least feminist adjacent.

flytraps_

Jan 28 2025, 12:27 PM #1

Clover
Kozlik's regular account 🍀🐐

639

Jan 28 2025, 12:49 PM

Quote:There’s a thread where one woman was getting downvoted because she rightfully pointed out that KJK isn’t gender critical.

I have noticed a trend where it seems like conservative/anti-trans people get big mad when radical feminists or gender critical feminists point out that being anti-trans is not being gender critical. I would have a similar thing happen when I would share the kindrad FAQ about the difference between being anti-trans/conservative and being gender critical on Ovarit—immediate instant downvotes (which tbf would eventually level out lol, but still "wtf" at someone immediately downvoting an explanation because they don't like it).

These people fail to see the difference between being gender critical and being transgender critical. I'm honestly not sure why they are so upset about it. I guess it's because they don't like admitting that they actually do support regressive gender norms? That there's more to being gender critical than just making fun of fetishistic men wearing poorly applied makeup and ill-fitting dresses?

I think KJK has done a decent amount of good, in terms of being a woman who was unafraid to speak up at the height of transmania. However, I don't really hold a high opinion of her after from what I have heard, accounts of her being possibly racist (?), but certainly the accounts of her praising Trump. I'm really sick of that. But that's part of my overall sickness and annoyance with people who think electing a misogynistic rapist billionaire is somehow good for women (or anyone besides wealthy white men)...

I'm also confused about people on Ovarit claiming KJK is a feminist, when she herself has stated she's not a feminist? I kind of wonder if the people claiming that are the same people who get mad when someone points out there's a difference between gender critical and anti-trans.

Imo from what I can tell, she's an anti-trans/transgender-critical woman. (I'm not saying that to be negative/disparaging, just stating it as a matter-of-factly.) So she aligns with radical feminists on that one issue. She has done good in bringing awareness to the issue of men identifying as women, and shaming neoliberal politicians who promote gender ideology.

Clover

Kozlik's regular account 🍀🐐

Jan 28 2025, 12:49 PM #2

Quote:There’s a thread where one woman was getting downvoted because she rightfully pointed out that KJK isn’t gender critical.

YesYourNigel

114

Jan 28 2025, 5:46 PM

I've heard people say "sex realist" to describe people who acknowledge sex. Seems like that'd be a better term for anyone who acknowledges the reality of sex, for whatever reasons they have. Though really, "anti-trans" should suffice, but I guess it's not "politically correct" to say you're anti-something nowadays?

(Jan 28 2025, 12:49 PM)Clover I have noticed a trend where it seems like conservative/anti-trans people get big mad when radical feminists or gender critical feminists point out that being anti-trans is not being gender critical.

They're trying to appropriate feminism to make themselves sound more rational and ethical as opposed to the raging supremacists that they are, and they hate when someone sees their scam for what it is and calls a spade a spade. Conservatives are often actively dishonest and deceptive by trying to appropriate feminist and progressive language to make themselves less offputting to women. Like how Trump portrays anti-trans rhetoric as being "for women's rights".

Edited Jan 28 2025, 5:47 PM by YesYourNigel.

I refuse to debate two obvious facts: 1. the patriarchy exists 2. and that's a bad thing

YesYourNigel

Jan 28 2025, 5:46 PM #3

(Jan 28 2025, 12:49 PM)Clover I have noticed a trend where it seems like conservative/anti-trans people get big mad when radical feminists or gender critical feminists point out that being anti-trans is not being gender critical.

I refuse to debate two obvious facts: 1. the patriarchy exists 2. and that's a bad thing

sealwomyn

Jan 28 2025, 6:31 PM

(Jan 28 2025, 5:46 PM)YesYourNigel I've heard people say "sex realist" to describe people who acknowledge sex. Seems like that'd be a better term for anyone who acknowledges the reality of sex, for whatever reasons they have. Though really, "anti-trans" should suffice, but I guess it's not "politically correct" to say you're anti-something nowadays?

I don't have a full KJK commentary right now although I did meet her once at her rally where she and the forced birther local politician she was working with had a male armed security guy with the III% logo on his shirt (saw with my own eyes), but I will say that I feel like I can't get behind feminist women ever using "sex realist" knowing that some racists use the term "race realist" referring to their white supremacy. I don't know where that term originates though, do you remember where you've seen "sex realist" by chance? I've only seen it on Ovarit which of course is not reassuring.

Oh, the piece of shit local handmaiden also had a sticker on her shirt saying TERF = Trans Exclusionary Republican Female. I already thought it was a bit annoying as a misnomer as radical feminism is just "male exclusionary" if anything, but now the acronym is more annoying knowing that some class traitors are shamelessly using it this way.

sealwomyn

Jan 28 2025, 6:31 PM #4

(Jan 28 2025, 5:46 PM)YesYourNigel I've heard people say "sex realist" to describe people who acknowledge sex. Seems like that'd be a better term for anyone who acknowledges the reality of sex, for whatever reasons they have. Though really, "anti-trans" should suffice, but I guess it's not "politically correct" to say you're anti-something nowadays?

YesYourNigel

114

Jan 28 2025, 8:51 PM

Quote: I can't get behind feminist women ever using "sex realist" knowing that some racists use the term "race realist" referring to their white supremacy.

Oh fuck I had no idea NEVER MIND, ABORT ABORT 🚨

And yes ofc I saw it on Ovarit. I should've known. Actually maybe we should encourage its use for all the racists so actually feminist women with actual feminist reasoning can have GC or TERF back, lol

Edited Jan 28 2025, 8:54 PM by YesYourNigel.

I refuse to debate two obvious facts: 1. the patriarchy exists 2. and that's a bad thing

YesYourNigel

Jan 28 2025, 8:51 PM #5

Quote: I can't get behind feminist women ever using "sex realist" knowing that some racists use the term "race realist" referring to their white supremacy.

I refuse to debate two obvious facts: 1. the patriarchy exists 2. and that's a bad thing

Iota Aurigae

Jan 28 2025, 10:24 PM

Quote:But the general consensus on the ovarit thread appeared to be that since KJK criticizes trans politics, she’s gender critical, and she’s therefore radical feminist, or at least feminist adjacent.

This is fucking funny considering she's openly stated that she isn't a feminist, multiple times.

I was a lot more chill with her right after I peaked, in 2022. I didn't know a lot about her and admired that she put herself on the front lines to give women opportunities to speak their minds, and I think that this sentiment generally grew after the shitshow that happened in Auckland in March 2023.

Then I began learning about her right-wing ties, and concerns about her Let Women Speak tour of the US, Australia, etc being funded by conservatives. The final straw was last summer, when she downplayed the January 6th domestic terrorist attack on the Capitol. I'm not a fan of hers by any means now.

To be clear, I think that she has made some very positive contributions. Let Women Speak let gender critical women air their grievances with an audience, and made them feel heard. The TRAs who attacked those events only dug their own grave and showed exactly how they're a violent men's rights movement. I will continue to write about cases of TRAs attacking attendees of her events, because I enjoy writing and I think that those stories should be told, more so for the sake of the attendees than for KJK. I still think that the TRAs mobbing her in Auckland was absolutely horrific.

But making good contributions does not in any way equate to her being a good person. Her actions show where her true alliances lie, and I think that she'll only keep up the facade of calling herself a "femalist" for as long as it nets her some money and gets her some attention.

I also find it funny how she's a Trump asskisser despite not even living in the US.

Iota Aurigae

Jan 28 2025, 10:24 PM #6

Quote:But the general consensus on the ovarit thread appeared to be that since KJK criticizes trans politics, she’s gender critical, and she’s therefore radical feminist, or at least feminist adjacent.

Iota Aurigae

Jan 28 2025, 10:27 PM

Quote:Oh, the piece of shit local handmaiden also had a sticker on her shirt saying TERF = Trans Exclusionary Republican Female.

This does make me quite mad. First they stole our term to "own thuh libs", and now they're completely rewriting its meaning.

Iota Aurigae

Jan 28 2025, 10:27 PM #7

Quote:Oh, the piece of shit local handmaiden also had a sticker on her shirt saying TERF = Trans Exclusionary Republican Female.

This does make me quite mad. First they stole our term to "own thuh libs", and now they're completely rewriting its meaning.

wormwood

Jan 28 2025, 11:05 PM

I do not have a very nuanced opinion on her, I’m afraid. I think she’s a con artist populist with far-right convictions.

I don’t have the receipts because, hey, I’m disorganised, but I was on the fringes of the gender critical scene in Britain from about 2014, left-leaning, organised to a great extent by grassroots Labour Party women: evidence-based collective feminist resistance to the appropriation of women’s rights.

A couple of years later, Posie Parker, as she called herself then, arrived on the scene with her Adult Human Female poster, and with her came a lot of publicity, and slowly at first, the white supremacists. She quarrelled with and insulted women who had started the movement, she flew across the Atlantic to meet with the Heritage Foundation, she started holding rallies with security who turned out to be racist thugs, and I’m pretty sure she also fundraised money that she never accounted for. I ran into her once at an event, she was barely on my radar and I didn’t recognise her, but she gave me the calculating look and the dazzling, “yes it’s famous me” smile of the true narcissist.

In short, my un-nuanced opinion is that she’s a smart female version of a very familiar type: Trump with two X chromosomes.

Edited Jan 29 2025, 10:00 AM by wormwood.

wormwood

Jan 28 2025, 11:05 PM #8

Colibri

Jan 28 2025, 11:22 PM

(Jan 28 2025, 10:24 PM)Iota Aurigae Then I began learning about her right-wing ties, and concerns about her Let Women Speak tour of the US, Australia, etc being funded by conservatives. The final straw was last summer, when she downplayed the January 6th domestic terrorist attack on the Capitol. I'm not a fan of hers by any means now.

Yikes, I didn’t know either of those things. I think she’s a great speaker, and I've really admired the way she cuts through TRA arguments and exposes how absurd they are, but the final thing for me was when she said something like, “Trump is the only hope for the world.”

Colibri

Jan 28 2025, 11:22 PM #9

(Jan 28 2025, 10:24 PM)Iota Aurigae Then I began learning about her right-wing ties, and concerns about her Let Women Speak tour of the US, Australia, etc being funded by conservatives. The final straw was last summer, when she downplayed the January 6th domestic terrorist attack on the Capitol. I'm not a fan of hers by any means now.

drdee

Jan 29 2025, 12:22 AM

#10

(Jan 28 2025, 10:24 PM)Iota Aurigae
Quote:But the general consensus on the ovarit thread appeared to be that since KJK criticizes trans politics, she’s gender critical, and she’s therefore radical feminist, or at least feminist adjacent.

This is fucking funny considering she's openly stated that she isn't a feminist, multiple times.

I was a lot more chill with her right after I peaked, in 2022. I didn't know a lot about her and admired that she put herself on the front lines to give women opportunities to speak their minds, and I think that this sentiment generally grew after the shitshow that happened in Auckland in March 2023.

Then I began learning about her right-wing ties, and concerns about her Let Women Speak tour of the US, Australia, etc being funded by conservatives. The final straw was last summer, when she downplayed the January 6th domestic terrorist attack on the Capitol. I'm not a fan of hers by any means now.

To be clear, I think that she has made some very positive contributions. Let Women Speak let gender critical women air their grievances with an audience, and made them feel heard. The TRAs who attacked those events only dug their own grave and showed exactly how they're a violent men's rights movement. I will continue to write about cases of TRAs attacking attendees of her events, because I enjoy writing and I think that those stories should be told, more so for the sake of the attendees than for KJK. I still think that the TRAs mobbing her in Auckland was absolutely horrific.

But making good contributions does not in any way equate to her being a good person. Her actions show where her true alliances lie, and I think that she'll only keep up the facade of calling herself a "femalist" for as long as it nets her some money and gets her some attention.

I also find it funny how she's a Trump asskisser despite not even living in the US.

I don't typically think 'yes this is exactly what I think' when I read something, but in this case yes, this is exactly what I think - with three additional things: first, she seems to be a marketing genius; she can really capture a 'vibe' and get it out there. Second, I admire her physical bravery - this isn't something women in general are known for (though as Victoria Smith says women don't get the recognition they deserve for the physical bravery of carrying and bearing children), and something that looks remarkably like the Suffragettes. Finally, I don't know if it matters to me whether she's a 'good person'. On reflection, I don't think I actually care if anyone except people I personally interact with are 'good people' - and, really, maybe I only care if I myself am a 'good person'.

Edited Jan 29 2025, 1:39 AM by drdee.

drdee

Jan 29 2025, 12:22 AM #10

(Jan 28 2025, 10:24 PM)Iota Aurigae
Quote:But the general consensus on the ovarit thread appeared to be that since KJK criticizes trans politics, she’s gender critical, and she’s therefore radical feminist, or at least feminist adjacent.

This is fucking funny considering she's openly stated that she isn't a feminist, multiple times.

I was a lot more chill with her right after I peaked, in 2022. I didn't know a lot about her and admired that she put herself on the front lines to give women opportunities to speak their minds, and I think that this sentiment generally grew after the shitshow that happened in Auckland in March 2023.

Then I began learning about her right-wing ties, and concerns about her Let Women Speak tour of the US, Australia, etc being funded by conservatives. The final straw was last summer, when she downplayed the January 6th domestic terrorist attack on the Capitol. I'm not a fan of hers by any means now.

To be clear, I think that she has made some very positive contributions. Let Women Speak let gender critical women air their grievances with an audience, and made them feel heard. The TRAs who attacked those events only dug their own grave and showed exactly how they're a violent men's rights movement. I will continue to write about cases of TRAs attacking attendees of her events, because I enjoy writing and I think that those stories should be told, more so for the sake of the attendees than for KJK. I still think that the TRAs mobbing her in Auckland was absolutely horrific.

But making good contributions does not in any way equate to her being a good person. Her actions show where her true alliances lie, and I think that she'll only keep up the facade of calling herself a "femalist" for as long as it nets her some money and gets her some attention.

I also find it funny how she's a Trump asskisser despite not even living in the US.

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