Ovarit thread glorifying Eastern European misogyny

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YesYourNigel

113

Feb 13 2025, 9:22 AM

Ovarit and Female Dating Strategy love to try and portray patriarchal arrangements as somehow beneficial to women. This is Eastern European edition, so expect it to rely on "Murrica dumb" and "Western values naive and stuck in lala land" on top of that. The comments talk about the double standard of women being called gold-diggers when they date rich men and one reply claims that women in Eastern European countries feel no shame in this.

Quote:Many Eastern European women I know seem to understand the transactional nature of this, and refuse to take the one sided shame for it

Women don't want to engage in this transaction, that's why they consume so much romance media where men do give a shit about them (including in Eastern Europe. Especially in Eastern Europe, hello soap operas) but they have to, because when your men are so overwhelmingly shit and feminist consciousness is so low, there is no other alternative you're given.

Quote:Do you know, whether their consciousness of the transactions leads to better arrangements for them?

Folx, is accepting that you have to marry for money feminism? 🤔

Hey, if the only measure of empowerment is whether the woman "owns" the horribly exploitative and harmful means of getting by, then we might as well add prostitution and transing out to the mix. Oh wait, that doesn't gel well with your Madonna-wh*re / Mother-Spinster complex.

ofc the other user replies "Definitely" because that serves the myth of those stupid Americans and Westerners being stupid and naive and if only they toughened up a little and stopped having their heads in the clouds, they'd realise that actually the traditional arrangements are to women's benefit or at the very least equal 🙄

Beauty standards and feminine gender roles for women are insane in Eastern Europe. Discrimination in jobs is seen as common sense. Rape culture and domestic violence are rampant. There isn't even an attempt to pretend women are equal for the sake of political correctness (unless it's time to try and make oneself seem more enlightened than stoopid westerners).

I certainly don't blame women for doing the best they can given the circumstances - your prospects for an independent life are intentionally limited and you're brainwashed all your life that you have to look like a supermodel to land a husband who will make actual money and, ofc, you need to focus on more important things like FaMiLy. And you're constantly treated by society as an unloveable troll if you refuse to play this game.

But there's a massive difference between women being forced to work within a patriarchal system, vs women being aware of and jealous of the progress that women have made in more developed countries and instead of recognising the blatant inequality, lying to themselves and other women and trying to lure them into their husbands' patriarchal ponzi scheme to make their lives of exploitation feel meaningful.

Accepting that your husband doesn't give a shit about you and that you're only a bangmaid to him, and then marrying him anyway because "Oh well, that's what men are like but I guess we love them anyway and I need to get food on the table somehow" is not empowerment for women. That's not women "getting theirs", that's women being pressured and forced so much by a patriarchal society into an obviously non-beneficial arrangement that's so normalised and so expected it doesn't even have to market itself as "totally equal", unlike in more feminist countries where men at least need to put in a modicum of work to scam women.

Edited Feb 13 2025, 9:31 AM by YesYourNigel.

I refuse to debate two obvious facts: 1. the patriarchy exists 2. and that's a bad thing

YesYourNigel

Feb 13 2025, 9:22 AM #1

Quote:Many Eastern European women I know seem to understand the transactional nature of this, and refuse to take the one sided shame for it

Quote:Do you know, whether their consciousness of the transactions leads to better arrangements for them?

I refuse to debate two obvious facts: 1. the patriarchy exists 2. and that's a bad thing

Berry

Feb 13 2025, 1:30 PM

This is how you know the so called TERFs on ovarit have lost the plot. Radical feminism says reproductive oppression is the root of women's oppression. Marriage is the primary institution that keeps women enslaved, not prostitution or transgenderism - those are relatively niche issues. What's not clicking here?

Berry

Feb 13 2025, 1:30 PM #2

Clover
Kozlik's regular account 🍀🐐

636

Feb 13 2025, 7:35 PM

TervenRainbows via Ovarit I think the interviewer questioned her about her reasons for marrying Trump (e.g. was it money?) and I remember her replying something along the lines of "well, would Donald have married me if I [...] wasn't beautiful?" Basically pointing out that exact double standard.

It's not a double standard though. (Unless the commenter was referring to the interviewer's question to Melania.) Melania lives in a patriarchy. She did what she had to, in order to survive and have a comfortable life under the patriarchal capitalist systems we live in. To put "nasty old men marrying young conventionally attractive women" on the same level as "young conventionally attractive women having to consider the option of marrying nasty old men to have a better life" is ridiculous. Melania has no fucking power in the situation. Case in point: Trump's ex-wives. She is replaceable, because she is objectified. And am I supposed to be envious, or in awe, of Melania's luxury cage?

Some of the women in that Ovarit thread are talking about how it's a transactional relationship. Yes, it is a transactional relationship. She is essentially a private prostitute. This is what Dworkin talks about with "the right-wing considers women private property." Would these women be willing to acknowledge that many heterosexual women are in these types of transactional relationships? And I'm not even talking about "gold digger" women who marry wealthy men, but women who marry men because men have just slightly higher incomes on average, they have much more of the job market available to them, they are more respected and likely to be promoted on average, they are more likely to be given a glass escalator in any job and in higher education, etc. all resulting in men being more likely to have more resources than women in a capitalist system.

I think what the commenters in that Ovarit thread get right is how Eastern European women can acknowledge the transactional nature of such relationships in a grim and "that's just how it is" sort of way. I think this is just in general an Eastern European way of thinking though. For Eastern European women, this mentality is of course applied to their expected sex-roles (gender) in life.

As an Eastern European woman myself, from what I have gathered from learning about Eastern European history from my family and other Slavic people, is probably the best way to describe the history of the Slavic people is "and then it got worse." As a result, there is a lot of long-standing acceptance of being in despairing situations. There is a reason there is high rates of alcoholism in the Russia and other Eastern European countries. There is a reason why, when Americans claim "why don't Russians protest?" when they hear of dictator Putin's actions that the answer is a tired shrug.

For Eastern European women, of course it is even worse. There are high rates of domestic violence; in Russian government, I recall they just stopped reporting on domestic violence rates and even legalized some domestic violence. I don't like it if American people think Eastern European women openly accepting the transactional nature that they needed to have in their relationships is somehow some sort of desirable or noble or "badass" trait. It fucking sucks. It's depressing and full of despair.

If we consider the "stages of grief", the Russian people have been in a depressed and hopeless "acceptance."

In fact, the reason I am so depressed about the current status of the United States right now is because I just think about all the stories my mother and Slavic friends have told me about the fall of the Soviet Union and the ransacking of its remains to vulture oligarchs—it reminds me of what appears to be happening in the United States right now. And I think for many Americans, they are currently in the state of "denial", in the utmost arrogant American fashion. Like the fact they wear baseball caps instead of ushankas will somehow protect them from their government collapsing and having to live under an [overt] oligarchy. Yeehaw.

“Good for the Eastern European women.”
How is it good?! This line gives off the same energy as a neoliberal feminist applausing a prostituted woman with platitudes like "Yasss queen slayyyy! Sex work is work!" just in right-wing property flavor.

Edited Feb 13 2025, 7:39 PM by Clover.

Kozlik's regular member account. 🍀🐐

Clover

Kozlik's regular account 🍀🐐

Feb 13 2025, 7:35 PM #3

TervenRainbows via Ovarit I think the interviewer questioned her about her reasons for marrying Trump (e.g. was it money?) and I remember her replying something along the lines of "well, would Donald have married me if I [...] wasn't beautiful?" Basically pointing out that exact double standard.

Kozlik's regular member account. 🍀🐐

wormwood

Feb 13 2025, 11:19 PM

Okay, but seriously, has there been a Russian propaganda takeover of Ovarit? I know I sound paranoid but given the current political situation, maybe it’s not just “right-wing women” but the same kind of campaign that’s been so successful elsewhere on the U.S. (and not only) Right (and not only)?

Edited Feb 13 2025, 11:19 PM by wormwood.

wormwood

Feb 13 2025, 11:19 PM #4

skunk
contrarian formerly known as futurebreedmachine

Feb 14 2025, 6:53 AM

(Feb 13 2025, 7:35 PM)Clover
TervenRainbows via Ovarit I think the interviewer questioned her about her reasons for marrying Trump (e.g. was it money?) and I remember her replying something along the lines of "well, would Donald have married me if I [...] wasn't beautiful?" Basically pointing out that exact double standard.
It's not a double standard though. (Unless the commenter was referring to the interviewer's question to Melania.) Melania lives in a patriarchy. She did what she had to, in order to survive and have a comfortable life under the patriarchal capitalist systems we live in. To put "nasty old men marrying young conventionally attractive women" on the same level as "young conventionally attractive women having to consider the option of marrying nasty old men to have a better life" is ridiculous. Melania has no fucking power in the situation. Case in point: Trump's ex-wives. She is replaceable, because she is objectified. And am I supposed to be envious, or in awe, of Melania's luxury cage?

Some of the women in that Ovarit thread are talking about how it's a transactional relationship. Yes, it is a transactional relationship. She is essentially a private prostitute. This is what Dworkin talks about with "the right-wing considers women private property." Would these women be willing to acknowledge that many heterosexual women are in these types of transactional relationships? And I'm not even talking about "gold digger" women who marry wealthy men, but women who marry men because men have just slightly higher incomes on average, they have much more of the job market available to them, they are more respected and likely to be promoted on average, they are more likely to be given a glass escalator in any job and in higher education, etc. all resulting in men being more likely to have more resources than women in a capitalist system.

I think what the commenters in that Ovarit thread get right is how Eastern European women can acknowledge the transactional nature of such relationships in a grim and "that's just how it is" sort of way. I think this is just in general an Eastern European way of thinking though. For Eastern European women, this mentality is of course applied to their expected sex-roles (gender) in life.

As an Eastern European woman myself, from what I have gathered from learning about Eastern European history from my family and other Slavic people, is probably the best way to describe the history of the Slavic people is "and then it got worse." As a result, there is a lot of long-standing acceptance of being in despairing situations. There is a reason there is high rates of alcoholism in the Russia and other Eastern European countries. There is a reason why, when Americans claim "why don't Russians protest?" when they hear of dictator Putin's actions that the answer is a tired shrug.

For Eastern European women, of course it is even worse. There are high rates of domestic violence; in Russian government, I recall they just stopped reporting on domestic violence rates and even legalized some domestic violence. I don't like it if American people think Eastern European women openly accepting the transactional nature that they needed to have in their relationships is somehow some sort of desirable or noble or "badass" trait. It fucking sucks. It's depressing and full of despair.

If we consider the "stages of grief", the Russian people have been in a depressed and hopeless "acceptance."

In fact, the reason I am so depressed about the current status of the United States right now is because I just think about all the stories my mother and Slavic friends have told me about the fall of the Soviet Union and the ransacking of its remains to vulture oligarchs—it reminds me of what appears to be happening in the United States right now. And I think for many Americans, they are currently in the state of "denial", in the utmost arrogant American fashion. Like the fact they wear baseball caps instead of ushankas will somehow protect them from their government collapsing and having to live under an [overt] oligarchy. Yeehaw.

“Good for the Eastern European women.”
How is it good?! This line gives off the same energy as a neoliberal feminist applausing a prostituted woman with platitudes like "Yasss queen slayyyy! Sex work is work!" just in right-wing property flavor.

My mother was also telling me so many of the propaganda style things happening here mirror what was happening in our home country when the Soviet Union was in power. I'm concerned about what direction things are going to go and I don't feel like enough people are concerned enough. It doesn't always help then going on Ovait and seeing them uplift policies trump is passing while completely ignoring all the terrible things he's doing (and theres absurdly more bad than good). And honestly, some of the constant anti-immigration sentiments over there are getting to me a bit.

Some of the replies came off to me like they didn't actually know any Eastern European women and were just going off of stereotypes, which was annoying. And I agree, they understand why a prostitute isn't the empowered one in the situation but think the EE here is? What? It bothered me cause it almost came off like they actually think being a "gold digger" is what EE women really want rather than something they feel like they have to do.

skunk

contrarian formerly known as futurebreedmachine

Feb 14 2025, 6:53 AM #5

(Feb 13 2025, 7:35 PM)Clover
TervenRainbows via Ovarit I think the interviewer questioned her about her reasons for marrying Trump (e.g. was it money?) and I remember her replying something along the lines of "well, would Donald have married me if I [...] wasn't beautiful?" Basically pointing out that exact double standard.
It's not a double standard though. (Unless the commenter was referring to the interviewer's question to Melania.) Melania lives in a patriarchy. She did what she had to, in order to survive and have a comfortable life under the patriarchal capitalist systems we live in. To put "nasty old men marrying young conventionally attractive women" on the same level as "young conventionally attractive women having to consider the option of marrying nasty old men to have a better life" is ridiculous. Melania has no fucking power in the situation. Case in point: Trump's ex-wives. She is replaceable, because she is objectified. And am I supposed to be envious, or in awe, of Melania's luxury cage?

Some of the women in that Ovarit thread are talking about how it's a transactional relationship. Yes, it is a transactional relationship. She is essentially a private prostitute. This is what Dworkin talks about with "the right-wing considers women private property." Would these women be willing to acknowledge that many heterosexual women are in these types of transactional relationships? And I'm not even talking about "gold digger" women who marry wealthy men, but women who marry men because men have just slightly higher incomes on average, they have much more of the job market available to them, they are more respected and likely to be promoted on average, they are more likely to be given a glass escalator in any job and in higher education, etc. all resulting in men being more likely to have more resources than women in a capitalist system.

I think what the commenters in that Ovarit thread get right is how Eastern European women can acknowledge the transactional nature of such relationships in a grim and "that's just how it is" sort of way. I think this is just in general an Eastern European way of thinking though. For Eastern European women, this mentality is of course applied to their expected sex-roles (gender) in life.

As an Eastern European woman myself, from what I have gathered from learning about Eastern European history from my family and other Slavic people, is probably the best way to describe the history of the Slavic people is "and then it got worse." As a result, there is a lot of long-standing acceptance of being in despairing situations. There is a reason there is high rates of alcoholism in the Russia and other Eastern European countries. There is a reason why, when Americans claim "why don't Russians protest?" when they hear of dictator Putin's actions that the answer is a tired shrug.

For Eastern European women, of course it is even worse. There are high rates of domestic violence; in Russian government, I recall they just stopped reporting on domestic violence rates and even legalized some domestic violence. I don't like it if American people think Eastern European women openly accepting the transactional nature that they needed to have in their relationships is somehow some sort of desirable or noble or "badass" trait. It fucking sucks. It's depressing and full of despair.

If we consider the "stages of grief", the Russian people have been in a depressed and hopeless "acceptance."

In fact, the reason I am so depressed about the current status of the United States right now is because I just think about all the stories my mother and Slavic friends have told me about the fall of the Soviet Union and the ransacking of its remains to vulture oligarchs—it reminds me of what appears to be happening in the United States right now. And I think for many Americans, they are currently in the state of "denial", in the utmost arrogant American fashion. Like the fact they wear baseball caps instead of ushankas will somehow protect them from their government collapsing and having to live under an [overt] oligarchy. Yeehaw.

“Good for the Eastern European women.”
How is it good?! This line gives off the same energy as a neoliberal feminist applausing a prostituted woman with platitudes like "Yasss queen slayyyy! Sex work is work!" just in right-wing property flavor.

Elsacat

155

Feb 14 2025, 9:08 AM

(Feb 13 2025, 11:19 PM)wormwood Okay, but seriously, has there been a Russian propaganda takeover of Ovarit? I know I sound paranoid but given the current political situation, maybe it’s not just “right-wing women” but the same kind of campaign that’s been so successful elsewhere on the U.S. (and not only) Right (and not only)?

I've suspected this - Russian and/or right-wing gradual infiltration and takeover of Ovarit - for at least the last two years. Not by mods or admins, just the userbase in general shifting popular opinions and sentiment.

The vibes in most of those circles are very different from when those same discussions were happening on subreddits. I wish the admins would take a step back, look it over with fresh eyes, and ask themselves if what the site is now is what they really want it to be and the direction they want it to go.

Elsacat

Feb 14 2025, 9:08 AM #6

(Feb 13 2025, 11:19 PM)wormwood Okay, but seriously, has there been a Russian propaganda takeover of Ovarit? I know I sound paranoid but given the current political situation, maybe it’s not just “right-wing women” but the same kind of campaign that’s been so successful elsewhere on the U.S. (and not only) Right (and not only)?

wormwood

Feb 14 2025, 1:31 PM

(Feb 14 2025, 9:08 AM)Elsacat
(Feb 13 2025, 11:19 PM)wormwood Okay, but seriously, has there been a Russian propaganda takeover of Ovarit? I know I sound paranoid but given the current political situation, maybe it’s not just “right-wing women” but the same kind of campaign that’s been so successful elsewhere on the U.S. (and not only) Right (and not only)?

I've suspected this - Russian and/or right-wing gradual infiltration and takeover of Ovarit - for at least the last two years. Not by mods or admins, just the userbase in general shifting popular opinions and sentiment.

The vibes in most of those circles are very different from when those same discussions were happening on subreddits. I wish the admins would take a step back, look it over with fresh eyes, and ask themselves if what the site is now is what they really want it to be and the direction they want it to go.

Well, I feel a little less as if I’m paranoid, so thank you. I don’t know if I feel better exactly…
I wish that too about Ovarit. I was so excited about it as a project, when it began. I was never on Reddit, so it was completely new to me.

I don’t recognise what’s being described in that thread, by the way. As far as I can tell, it’s an ugly little set of misogynist stereotypes.

I’m not from the part of Europe that used to be in the Soviet sphere of influence, but I’ve met a lot of women here in the Southeast of Europe who are. Quite a lot were trafficked here, especially just after the iron curtain fell, yes. And if I know any survivors of that trade in young women, they haven’t trusted me with it.
Many Eastern European women here work as nurses, home carers for children or the elderly (we don’t have a lot of institutional care where I live) or as cleaners, waiting tables, or in retail jobs, but the women I’ve spoken to at any length are working full time, or full time plus, and when they have husbands (most of the ones I’ve met are middle aged, like me, and divorced, like me) those husbands are also working hard. To make a better life for their kids, like migrants anywhere, from anywhere.

Edited Feb 14 2025, 1:32 PM by wormwood.

wormwood

Feb 14 2025, 1:31 PM #7

(Feb 14 2025, 9:08 AM)Elsacat
(Feb 13 2025, 11:19 PM)wormwood Okay, but seriously, has there been a Russian propaganda takeover of Ovarit? I know I sound paranoid but given the current political situation, maybe it’s not just “right-wing women” but the same kind of campaign that’s been so successful elsewhere on the U.S. (and not only) Right (and not only)?

I've suspected this - Russian and/or right-wing gradual infiltration and takeover of Ovarit - for at least the last two years. Not by mods or admins, just the userbase in general shifting popular opinions and sentiment.

The vibes in most of those circles are very different from when those same discussions were happening on subreddits. I wish the admins would take a step back, look it over with fresh eyes, and ask themselves if what the site is now is what they really want it to be and the direction they want it to go.

Clover
Kozlik's regular account 🍀🐐

636

Feb 16 2025, 8:34 PM

(Feb 14 2025, 1:31 PM)wormwood
(Feb 14 2025, 9:08 AM)Elsacat
(Feb 13 2025, 11:19 PM)wormwood Okay, but seriously, has there been a Russian propaganda takeover of Ovarit? I know I sound paranoid but given the current political situation, maybe it’s not just “right-wing women” but the same kind of campaign that’s been so successful elsewhere on the U.S. (and not only) Right (and not only)?

I've suspected this - Russian and/or right-wing gradual infiltration and takeover of Ovarit - for at least the last two years. Not by mods or admins, just the userbase in general shifting popular opinions and sentiment.

The vibes in most of those circles are very different from when those same discussions were happening on subreddits. I wish the admins would take a step back, look it over with fresh eyes, and ask themselves if what the site is now is what they really want it to be and the direction they want it to go.

Well, I feel a little less as if I’m paranoid, so thank you. I don’t know if I feel better exactly…
I wish that too about Ovarit. I was so excited about it as a project, when it began. I was never on Reddit, so it was completely new to me.

Yeah, don't worry, you're definitely not alone. I was actually surprised at how many women have written in the "what interests you in this forum?" question on the clovenhooves user registration page that they have been less interested in Ovarit due to the perceived tone shift towards conservatism. It definitely helped me feel less like I was just some random biased lefty tinfoil hat weirdo. I mean, maybe I still am that, but at least I know I'm not alone in my feelings on Ovarit LOL.

Edited Feb 16 2025, 8:35 PM by Clover.

Kozlik's regular member account. 🍀🐐

Clover

Kozlik's regular account 🍀🐐

Feb 16 2025, 8:34 PM #8

(Feb 14 2025, 1:31 PM)wormwood
(Feb 14 2025, 9:08 AM)Elsacat
(Feb 13 2025, 11:19 PM)wormwood Okay, but seriously, has there been a Russian propaganda takeover of Ovarit? I know I sound paranoid but given the current political situation, maybe it’s not just “right-wing women” but the same kind of campaign that’s been so successful elsewhere on the U.S. (and not only) Right (and not only)?

I've suspected this - Russian and/or right-wing gradual infiltration and takeover of Ovarit - for at least the last two years. Not by mods or admins, just the userbase in general shifting popular opinions and sentiment.

The vibes in most of those circles are very different from when those same discussions were happening on subreddits. I wish the admins would take a step back, look it over with fresh eyes, and ask themselves if what the site is now is what they really want it to be and the direction they want it to go.

Well, I feel a little less as if I’m paranoid, so thank you. I don’t know if I feel better exactly…
I wish that too about Ovarit. I was so excited about it as a project, when it began. I was never on Reddit, so it was completely new to me.

Kozlik's regular member account. 🍀🐐

eyeswideopen

Feb 17 2025, 7:42 AM

The right-wing shift on Ovarit has been so pronounced and obnoxious that I now visit the site maybe once every few days, as opposed to daily visits when Ovarit was starting up. I have zero interest in engaging in the multiple threads praising the latest anti-DEI or anti-trans EO issued by Trump or watching supposedly gender critical women post adoringly about the latest right-wing/dark enlightenment man to take up the anti-gender ideology cause. I just came from the Planned Parenthood thread and someone posted a link to a Catholic "news" site about PP's involvement in sex trafficking.

I'm so glad I didn't waste my money donating to a right-wing forum masquerading as a feminist website.

eyeswideopen

Feb 17 2025, 7:42 AM #9

hatpin

Feb 18 2025, 10:18 PM

#10

The shift is really sad. I deleted my account today, I do not have the energy to spend time correcting the conservative propaganda machine of very online people, on a site where they no longer stop bigotry and ignorance. It is no wonder the stats and fundraising are no longer posted.

The last time I posted more than just a line, I had my posts refuting one of the posters who is probably a man, definitely an agent provocateur, for incivility, also the one for rudeness because I questioned how any feminist woman could support Project 2025.
I was rather rude on that one.

It adds to my feeling that I went to sleep and woke up in the worst universe, and I wonder what I did to deserve this. (I am kidding, but it is hyperbole for how I feel)

I haven't been a regular poster since the super right wing brigade showed up with their White Supremacist forum destroying playbook antics. I miss several of the posters from there very much. I wish I felt more like starting discussions right now, but I am reading many posts here, sisters.

Edited Feb 18 2025, 10:23 PM by hatpin.

hatpin

Feb 18 2025, 10:18 PM #10

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