Bæddelism in the Trans Movement ("radfem" trans)

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Discussion Bæddelism in the Trans Movement ("radfem" trans)

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Poll: Have you come across a Bæddelist or Bæddelist thought before?

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noray

Apr 11 2025, 7:49 AM

I thought I'd share a topic on something that a lot of radical feminists/GCs aren't privvy to, and that's the Bæddelist movement. Bæddelism has been around for quite a while, but is slowly making a re-emergence. It's definitely starting to reshape trans politics, and by extension mainstream feminism as well as TIM and TIF relations RE: misogyny so I think it's important to keep a note of it.

So, what is Bæddelism?:

It's been nicknamed as "radical feminism for trans women", though it doesn't really share a lot of it's radfem principles and is usually just man hating and separatism/t4t (the irony isn't lost here). Bæddelism came out of certain online trans spaces, particularly on Tumblr around the early 2010s, and has been associated with cults, misogyny and attacks upon women who are trans male identified.

Bæddelists have been infamous for many things - especially misogyny, they are the demographic of trans people who are unapologetically sexist towards women and have pioneered a lot of it, including the "suck my girlcock" insult towards women, and the normalisation of "female penis" ideology, which they consider to be a stake in normalising male anatomy for women in mainstream trans culture.

They also hate women who transition into men, and view them with resentment and envy, a lot of that is fueling the trans infighting between genders even today.

Common phrases/terminology associated with the movement:

Baeddel: The name itself comes from an old medieval term for someone who today might be seen as GNC or intersex. See: Wikipedia on Bæddel and bædling

Transmisogyny: This is the big one. Bæddels used this term to describe the specific kind of oppression they believed trans women face a combo of transphobia and misogyny. They argued it’s worse than what anyone else deals with (even more than actual women), making trans women the ultimate targets of misogyny.

TME/TMA: These stand for “transmisogyny exempt” and “transmisogyny affected.” Bæddels coined these to split the world into two camps: people who don’t experience transmisogyny (like "cis" people, trans men, and non-binary folks assigned female at birth.) To put it simply: all actual females, and men who are not trans identified.

CAFAB/CAMAB: This stands for "coercively assigned female/male at birth". In this ideology, "sex isn't real" is an actual part of their philosophy, they believe that by "assigning gender" based on genitals, this is something done without a baby's consent.
The “coercively” part suggests that assigning a baby as male (based on physical traits like genitals) isn’t just a neutral observation but an act of force—a way society imposes "a binary gender role" without consent.

This sounds odd, but genderists tend to assume that correctly sexing someone is inherently the same as forcing them to wear dresses or to play football as they associate the two.

Male Socialization/Female Socialization: We've all heard of how TIMs reject the idea of male socialization, but aside from typical defensiveness, why? Bæddels believe how you’re raised, based on what gender people think you are at birth, shapes your whole worldview. They’d argue trans women, raised as “boys,” still faced unique harm because of transmisogyny, while trans men, raised as “girls,” got some kind of leg up in society once they transitioned. It was a way to frame trans men as less oppressed.

AFAB Trans Privilege: AFAB means “assigned female at birth”. Bæddels flipped the usual feminist script by arguing that transmascs (AFABs who are trans) gain privilege by transitioning into maleness, while trans women (AMAB) lose any scraps of privilege they might’ve had. The implication here is that trans identified females are the oppressors of trans women (males) and normal women, and have male privilege.

Bæddelist Beliefs and Ideas:

There's a tumblr post online written by a trans identified female person called Let's Talk About Bæddels: A Comprehensive Retrospective which perfectly sets the stage for what Bæddelism is - while it is indeed a TRA pov it will explain the movement pretty well, I recommend you give it a full read. I will walk through some highlights:
[Image: ILK4xbl.png]

[Image: 2e72e1b71c3ae0801ec33981d0117387df8812a6.pnj]

Issues with Sexual Assault and Cult-Like Behaviour

Because Bæddelists see other men, trans men and actual women to be their oppressors, they had an actual victim complex where they viewed any actions done by their group to often be motivated by transmisogyny.

A big one is sexual assault and/or rape - many believed that trans women were accused of rape and SA more than other groups because of stereotypes and hatred; not that they are men and are male socialised and often are doing those things. As a result, they formed a cult-like mentality where they would often dismiss any sexual assaults and rape that a trans woman was accused of, as it was percieved harmful to their group and not "on code".

Typical victims were transmascs (females) and other men (trans women).

You can only imagine how that went.

More reading:
When Bæddels Took Them
Brushes with Bæddels
[Image: RME2Gu2.png]

I definitely recommend reading the article, Bæddelism never truly went away and many of them hide (or openly show) within the trans movement, the terms are still used. Often they can be found amongst TIRFs and Serrano fans.

Feel free to discuss and ask questions.

noray

Apr 11 2025, 7:49 AM #1

eyeswideopen

Apr 11 2025, 9:08 AM

Wow, thank you for this great write-up. Have never heard of these people under this specific name before, although of course I've run across these sentiments frequently, as has anyone who has done any reading in any trans-identified online space. Feels like we're well within a terminal phase of genderism with the cracks clearly showing what the movement really is at its core (misogyny and male supremacy).

Edited Apr 11 2025, 9:10 AM by eyeswideopen.

eyeswideopen

Apr 11 2025, 9:08 AM #2

Lemonade

Apr 11 2025, 9:11 AM

So like MGTOW but with lipstick?

Lemonade

Apr 11 2025, 9:11 AM #3

So like MGTOW but with lipstick?

Chernobog

Apr 11 2025, 10:56 AM

If I wasn't already peaked in 2013, this woulda done it. The sentiments were definitely well-circulated in 2011-2012 when I was deep in it, though, and that contributed a lot to my disavowal of gender ideology. It's shocking (or suspicious) trans was able to maintain mainstream after this. Kind of the pinnacle of prescriptivist idealism, too - I wonder what other whacked out medieval-ish anti-materialist philosophies one would find connected to it if someone could stomach a deep dive.

Chernobog

Apr 11 2025, 10:56 AM #4

skunk

Apr 11 2025, 3:37 PM

Quote:It's shocking (or suspicious) trans was able to maintain mainstream after this.

At this point, i am actually not shocked or suspicious anymore. Virtually all of the beliefs and points being made by baeddels here are the same thing incels think, but steeped in confusing gender nonsense. Including a hatred of other men. The dynamics are exactly the same. But they do try to twist it around into something new. But its the same old as time misogynistic beliefs and arguments. The clear viewpoint that females are inherently inferior to males. The hatred and extreme competition against other males they deem a threat to themselves. The genuine belief that males are ultimately the most oppressed, but especially males like them.

I mean, to me, that sounds suspiciously similar to all the white men believing that they are not only the ones that are actually oppressed because of their sex, but they are also the ones actually oppressed because of their race. But in this instance, they feel like they are the most oppressed because of their inherent lack of "masculinity" as well as their sex. And I know they say gender. But from everything I've read here and everywhere else with these viewpoints, its clear that they think they're the ones oppressed based on their sex.

And the more time goes on, and the entire world continues to hold women back or roll back rights we've won again and again, etc. the more I notice not only incel beliefs becoming more mainstream overall, but apologetic attitudes towards incel rhetoric is also becoming more mainstream. I've witnessed everyday men have similar sentiments to incels, but they certainly don't think they do. I've witnessed so many women and men defending incels lately or trying to be sympathetic towards them. So when they see and hear the exact same arguments and ideas from TIMs, combined with the dems/libs absolutely steeped in the ideology already, im not really surprised that they either don't realize or don't care that they're ultimately just upholding the same old patriarchal bullshit they claim to be against.

People were already getting soft on incels, so combine that with the fact that prominent dems have been hammering it into people's heads for years now that these guys are the absolute most oppressed people and this is the civil rights issue of our lifetime, im not too shocked at people completely glazing over the apparent misogyny in the entire movement. They've been so good at that for so, so long, I don't see why they'd change gears now.

Edited Apr 11 2025, 3:53 PM by skunk.

skunk

Apr 11 2025, 3:37 PM #5

Quote:It's shocking (or suspicious) trans was able to maintain mainstream after this.

Clover
Kozlik's regular account 🍀🐐

872

Apr 11 2025, 10:23 PM

(Apr 11 2025, 9:11 AM)Lemonade So like MGTOW but with lipstick?

This is what I was thinking! lol. It even tracks with the whole "incel to TIM pipeline" concept. They're still the same MGTOW incels on the inside, but now with gynecomastia and "spinny skirts" on the outside.

Edited Apr 11 2025, 10:23 PM by Clover.

Kozlik's regular member account. 🍀🐐

Clover

Kozlik's regular account 🍀🐐

Apr 11 2025, 10:23 PM #6

(Apr 11 2025, 9:11 AM)Lemonade So like MGTOW but with lipstick?

Kozlik's regular member account. 🍀🐐

YesYourNigel

182

Apr 12 2025, 11:10 AM

Quote:The hatred and extreme competition against other males they deem a threat to themselves.

I don't ever see incels hate men. They hate women for not giving them pity-fucks and for not having a dating pool composed exclusively of losers like them, but I've never seen them focus their ire on high-status men. I find that all "sad" men at the bottom of the male ladder still worship the ladder itself because it gives them hope to one day be the oppressors and be entitled to money, sex, status etc.

Like if you've ever heard one of those "woe is me, being such a monster for being a man!"-types (often intersects with TIMs but doesn't have to) fish for pity among women, they're self-aware enough to not try to openly attack women but will instead do their performance in order to guilt-trip them over how horribly misandrist they are 🥺. Sure women's freedoms, safety and humanity are constantly under attack from men, but what about how that makes MY ego and entitlement to all these privileges feel?!

The key characteristic of men is that even if they make a big show out of how enlightened they are about the patriarchy in order to get status or stroke their egos, they will NEVER want to lift a finger to change it. Because they don't want to change it. What's in it for them if they do? Even if they're the lowest men, they will be holding out hope that they'll one day be on the top, or they'll cling onto the system for a feeling of oppression and, of course, subsequent entitlement. It's so unfair that beta men are on the bottom, if everyone pitied them enough, they'd rally around them and put them on top into the center of attention like they deserve!

Also many loser gay men will uphold male supremacist systems for fetishistic reasons as well (either to maintain alpha male worship, or because they get off to their inferior status), though numbers-wise they're not as prominent.

Edited Apr 12 2025, 12:15 PM by YesYourNigel.

YesYourNigel

Apr 12 2025, 11:10 AM #7

Quote:The hatred and extreme competition against other males they deem a threat to themselves.

YesYourNigel

182

Apr 12 2025, 12:14 PM

To the thread itself: Oh my god this is infuriating. It's such typical male bioessentialist rubbish and a showcase of why it's impossible to discuss feminism and the patriarchy with men. Their entire existence revolves around their religion-esque worship of masculinity, and they literally cannot imagine the world existing without it, even if they get screwed over in the process as well.

It reminds me of the men whose main retort to any criticism of the patriarchy or of rapists and abusers is something along the lines of "So you want to kill all men?!". Like, you realise men could exist without ruining women's lives and being rapists and abusers and neglectful and morally corrupt, right? If they stopped doing this shit, there would be no problem with men whatsoever, right? Men are not lesser because they're just regular normal dudes except there's something arbitrarily inferior about the Y chromosome (and it's very telling of men's supremacist mentality that this is the only way they can conceive of the issue in both anti- and pro-feminist rhetoric), but because they behave in oppressive, shitty ways. HOW is that so hard for men to grasp?

Feminists said "Men are biased due to male socialisation and privileges, they were taught to always prioritise their own interests and dismiss women's, so women need to let their voices be heard" and the only thing self-pitying men and TIMs took in was "Men are ugly unbangable trolls who are inferior to hot women" while furiosly masturbating to the thought, and then called that radical feminism. It's literally your average femdom dude's wetdream of what feminism is, one that ofc doesn't include any kind of activism to better women's human rights and quality of life, because women are not human beings, they are a sexy concept belonging to the male public domain for them to muse on and play around with. "Wow it sure would be hot if feminazism put women on top as our supreme sexy mistresses, that way my BDSM fantasies would have more merit!"

Also lmao at regular women and TIFs, of COURSE, being the real oppressors. You almost made me think this supposedly anti-patriarchal male ideology could possibly, even if misogynistic, focus on the men who'll bash your teeth in for wearing female-associated clothes. You know, the men who you claim are so dangerous you need to violate women's safe spaces. Oh thank god the worst oppressors have been women all along for talking about their stupid rights!

I find the vast majority of these baedellist points (you're somehow socialised into your wishful thinking instead of actual societal expectations, observing gender at birth is an act of oppression, transmisogyny is the worst form of oppression and non-trans women are privileged within the patriarchy for being women) very mainstream, though the denial of misogyny and proclaiming TIFs as privileged and as such deserving of violence would be controversial outside of edgy TIM spaces. Also I'll just say wow at that idea. It's such typical fixation and rage from men at women and trying to justify violence against them. Literally the trans equivalent of "equal rights, equal fights". It's sad though that edgy TIM spaces are more likely to have the "feminism is stupid because women already have rights" bootlicking TIFs, who I could see use this violence to gender-affirm themselves as a "real man".

In regards to female reaction to this, TIFs are divided along the more butch One Of The Boys TIFs that will pretty much solely bootlick men and often just parrot edgy TIMs dominating the less politically correct trans communities (without a hint of self-awareness to the gender dynamics involved), and the other group is the genderfuckery/YASS QUEEN crowd that still has enough dignity and bottom of the barrel liberal feminist consciousness to entertain the notion of gendered socialisation and certainly the patriarchy - after all it takes a special level of delusion to think that getting creeped on by men is just a normal part of the privileged dudebro lifestyle.

But it's telling that I've never heard a single TIF talk about "transmisandry". TIFs will either (depending on the aforementioned classification) try to delude themselves that they're totally subject to misandry because ofc misogyny is something only hysterical women care about and the fact that men would assault them is just uhhh dudebros being dudebros 🤷‍♂️ or they'll be libfemmy enough to recognise that men groping you is misogyny as old as time and isn't some special subcategory of oppression. But I've never heard them talk about transmisandry.

I guess even if they were, I would bet my house they'd talk about it solely from the context of how catty and bitchy other women are, and wouldn't dream of positioning men as the main problem for their gender validation fantasies. You can definitely see the contrast between the typical female centering and excusing of men vs the sheer contempt of women as the root of all evil that men bring to the table (and TIFs internalise due to patriarchal biases). In both cases women, despite being more likely to validate trans shit and less likely to creep on individuals and treat them according to a patriarchal hierarchy based solely on what genitals they have (and how fuckable they find those genitals to be), are portrayed as bad and abusive and the real problem within trans activism. If men are mentioned as a problem, it's ofc as a part of those generalised "bad people" and "transphobes". Interesting that, despite the fact that TIFs are literally at threat of rape and assault from men who think they're a sex object because of their female genitals and who worship penises to the extreme, that this would never be the fixation of any analysis of transmisandry. They'll just complain about how mean women are for not pretending like they're big macho dangerous tough guys that the TIFs like to pretend they are, and that's far worse than worrying that you'll get beaten up and sexually assaulted just because men heard you pissing down in the men's loo.

Edited Apr 12 2025, 1:53 PM by YesYourNigel.

YesYourNigel

Apr 12 2025, 12:14 PM #8

Shroom

Apr 13 2025, 9:46 AM

(Apr 12 2025, 12:14 PM)YesYourNigel But it's telling that I've never heard a single TIF talk about "transmisandry".

It's telling, yes, but not for the reasons you think: TIFs who've realized they unfortunately can't escape misogyny (even if they don't think it's that and try to process it through trans terminology and logic) by identifying out of being a woman have actually been trying to talk about their experiences, but 1) not enough of them are willing to confront this so it's a comparatively small group, and 2) TIMs have been pushing back hard when they do.

The other reason you haven't heard about is because TIFs have chosen to call it "transandrophobia" instead. (Probably because nerdy women seem love making up new words based on Greco-Roman linguistics as much as they love turning civil rights movements into fandoms: see also "sapphic", "achillean", etc. The Greek Mythology Obsession from high school never truly goes away does it?)

Anyway, if you're (or anyone else is) interested in looking into this, I think (as for anything) hearing the discussion from the horse's mouth is the best way to go about it. I also think Pillarsalt (my favorite radblog ^^) has a great, succinct analysis of the backlash.

As for the actual thread topic: despite never having heard of Bæddelism before, a disturbing amount of it is just common TRA/TIP sentiment in their spaces. They may not lay it out so explicitly, and TIMs may not say the accidentally mask-off "I transitioned to try to escape being (hated as) an oppressor" out loud, but holy shit this is insane to see admitted so clearly here when it normally feels like dragging a cat out of the treat cabinet trying to get TRAs and TIP to admit their most basic tenets they clearly believe in (e.g. "dressing and acting according to sex stereotypes makes you a wo/man").

In a weird way... it's almost a relief to see this? Like of course it's batshit insane, misogynistic and homophobic as all hell, but so are even the "milder" beliefs of transgenderism (tangent: as well as trying the opt-out "be kind" route e.g. "I'm willing to call some TIMs 'she' or 'they'", "I'm fine with passing or HSTS TIMs using women's bathrooms/spaces" So you agree with them, then? Being GNC and/or gay somehow makes someone not the sex that they are?) so hearing that some of them are actually willing to admit out loud that they really do hate all women, even conforming to the group won't save you... Idk maybe we'd have a lot more peaked people (and even some would peak who otherwise would never) and pushing against this than we have now. Maybe I've just secretly been an accelerationist this whole time lol. (Not really though haha.)

Also does anyone have any info/veracity on the tumblr user credited with starting this whole thing? If what the post claims is true, whoever this is could be Patient Zero for the modern trans movement (at least among the average person, ignoring the rich donors which we must always remember: rich men with a fetish have more political power and financial security than most women do) and that's insane to me. Just casually throwing out "hey, I found the person who was at least part of if not a major source of so much trauma, abuse, lies, political corruption, and despair for the past several decades!" in a random, mostly unknown tumblr post.

Shroom

Apr 13 2025, 9:46 AM #9

(Apr 12 2025, 12:14 PM)YesYourNigel But it's telling that I've never heard a single TIF talk about "transmisandry".

skunk

Apr 14 2025, 1:47 PM

#10

(Apr 12 2025, 11:10 AM)YesYourNigel
Quote:The hatred and extreme competition against other males they deem a threat to themselves.
I don't ever see incels hate men. They hate women for not giving them pity-fucks and for not having a dating pool composed exclusively of losers like them, but I've never seen them focus their ire on high-status men. I find that all "sad" men at the bottom of the male ladder still worship the ladder itself because it gives them hope to one day be the oppressors and be entitled to money, sex, status etc.

Like if you've ever heard one of those "woe is me, being such a monster for being a man!"-types (often intersects with TIMs but doesn't have to) fish for pity among women, they're self-aware enough to not try to openly attack women but will instead do their performance in order to guilt-trip them over how horribly misandrist they are 🥺. Sure women's freedoms, safety and humanity are constantly under attack from men, but what about how that makes MY ego and entitlement to all these privileges feel?!

The key characteristic of men is that even if they make a big show out of how enlightened they are about the patriarchy in order to get status or stroke their egos, they will NEVER want to lift a finger to change it. Because they don't want to change it. What's in it for them if they do? Even if they're the lowest men, they will be holding out hope that they'll one day be on the top, or they'll cling onto the system for a feeling of oppression and, of course, subsequent entitlement. It's so unfair that beta men are on the bottom, if everyone pitied them enough, they'd rally around them and put them on top into the center of attention like they deserve!

Also many loser gay men will uphold male supremacist systems for fetishistic reasons as well (either to maintain alpha male worship, or because they get off to their inferior status), though numbers-wise they're not as prominent.

I wouldn't say they focus their ire on "high status" men, but I definitely see incels display jealous hatred towards them. Ultimately, they still project that anger onto women instead of anyone or anything else and ultimately blame women. They're never going to go after those men, just quietly be angry at them while believing they deserve what those men might have. Women are always ultimately the focus of their hatred, absolutely. And they will absolutely continue to uphold the ladder, even if they're envious little losers.

I've personally just witnessed incels and TIMs alike have a similar mindset where they view themselves as the most oppressed and most subjugated and they seem to believe it's due to some inability to be "masculine" enough. So thats where i see some amount of jealousy towards men they've dubbed "chads" or properly masculine or some other nonsense like that. But as always, they still blame women for all of it and we're always the most hated and to blame for all of it either way.

skunk

Apr 14 2025, 1:47 PM #10

(Apr 12 2025, 11:10 AM)YesYourNigel
Quote:The hatred and extreme competition against other males they deem a threat to themselves.
I don't ever see incels hate men. They hate women for not giving them pity-fucks and for not having a dating pool composed exclusively of losers like them, but I've never seen them focus their ire on high-status men. I find that all "sad" men at the bottom of the male ladder still worship the ladder itself because it gives them hope to one day be the oppressors and be entitled to money, sex, status etc.

Like if you've ever heard one of those "woe is me, being such a monster for being a man!"-types (often intersects with TIMs but doesn't have to) fish for pity among women, they're self-aware enough to not try to openly attack women but will instead do their performance in order to guilt-trip them over how horribly misandrist they are 🥺. Sure women's freedoms, safety and humanity are constantly under attack from men, but what about how that makes MY ego and entitlement to all these privileges feel?!

The key characteristic of men is that even if they make a big show out of how enlightened they are about the patriarchy in order to get status or stroke their egos, they will NEVER want to lift a finger to change it. Because they don't want to change it. What's in it for them if they do? Even if they're the lowest men, they will be holding out hope that they'll one day be on the top, or they'll cling onto the system for a feeling of oppression and, of course, subsequent entitlement. It's so unfair that beta men are on the bottom, if everyone pitied them enough, they'd rally around them and put them on top into the center of attention like they deserve!

Also many loser gay men will uphold male supremacist systems for fetishistic reasons as well (either to maintain alpha male worship, or because they get off to their inferior status), though numbers-wise they're not as prominent.

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