clovenhooves Feminist Repository The Library Rape Against Our Will by Susan Brownmiller - the start of male supremacy?

Rape Against Our Will by Susan Brownmiller - the start of male supremacy?

Rape Against Our Will by Susan Brownmiller - the start of male supremacy?

 
Apr 22 2025, 3:46 AM
#1
Recently I reread "Against Our Will" and I'm curious about your opinions on this quote from the introduction. There are feminists that claim that the patriarchy started X thousand years ago (I've seen 10 000 years at most) but I think it goes way, way back. 

I'm of the opinion that it all started when the first male decided to use his biological advantages to harm a woman for personal gain, other men following suit, and this quote might just explain how the first act of female exploitation was rape. 

It also presents the idea that women didn't start as helpless and passive and actually had "a prescient vision of her right to her own physical integrity" that they tried to preserve to the best of their abilities, and when that failed, they started obeying men to minimize the harm. 



Man’s structural capacity to rape and woman’s corresponding structural vulnerability are as basic to the physiology of both our sexes as the primal act of sex itself. Had it not been for this accident of biology, an accommodation requiring the locking together of two separate parts, penis into vagina, there would be neither copulation nor rape as we know it. 

Anatomically one might want to improve on the design of nature, but such speculation appears to my mind as unrealistic. The human sex act accomplishes its historic purpose of generation of the species and it also affords some intimacy and pleasure. I have no basic quarrel with the procedure. But, nevertheless, we cannot work around the fact that in terms of human anatomy the possibility of forcible intercourse incontrovertibly exists. This single factor may have been sufficient to have caused the creation of a male ideology of rape. When men discovered that they could rape, they proceeded to do it. Later, much later, under certain circumstances they even came to consider rape a crime.

In the violent landscape inhabited by primitive woman and man, some woman somewhere had a prescient vision of her right to her own physical integrity, and in my mind’s eye I can picture her fighting like hell to preserve it. After a thunderbolt of recognition that this particular incarnation of hairy, two-legged hominid was not the Homo sapiens with whom she would like to freely join parts, it might have been she, and not some man, who picked up the first stone and hurled it. How surprised he must have been, and what an unexpected battle must have taken place. Fleet of foot and spirited, she would have kicked, bitten, pushed and run, but she could not retaliate in kind.

The dim perception that had entered prehistoric woman’s consciousness must have had an equal but opposite reaction in the mind of her male assailant. For if the first rape was an unexpected battle founded on the first woman’s refusal, the second rape was indubitably planned. Indeed, one of the earliest forms of male bonding must have been the gang rape of one woman by a band of marauding men. This accomplished, rape became not only a male prerogative, but man’s basic weapon of force against woman, the principal agent of his will and her fear. His forcible entry into her body, despite her physical protestations and struggle, became the vehicle of his victorious conquest over her being, the ultimate test of his superior strength, the triumph of his manhood.

Man’s discovery that his genitalia could serve as a weapon to generate fear must rank as one of the most important discoveries of prehistoric times, along with the use of fire and the first crude stone axe. From prehistoric times to the present, I believe, rape has played a critical function. It is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear.


And from the second chapter... 


FROM THE HUMBLEST BEGINNINGS of the social order based on a primitive system of retaliatory force—the lex talionis: an eye for an eye—woman was unequal before the law. By anatomical fiat—the inescapable construction of their genital organs—the human male was a natural predator and the human female served as his natural prey. Not only might the female be subjected at will to a thoroughly detestable physical conquest from which there could be no retaliation in kind—a rape for a rape—but the consequences of such a brutal struggle might be death or injury, not to mention impregnation and the birth of a dependent child.


One possibility, and one possibility alone, was available to woman. Those of her own sex whom she might call to her aid were more often than not smaller and weaker than her male attackers. More critical, they lacked the basic physical wherewithal for punitive vengeance; at best they could maintain only a limited defensive action. But among those creatures who were her predators, some might serve as her chosen protectors. Perhaps it was thus that the risky bargain was struck. Female fear of an open season of rape, and not a natural inclination toward monogamy, motherhood or love, was probably the single causative factor in the original subjugation of woman by man, the most important key to her historic dependence, her domestication by protective mating.

Once the male took title to a specific female body, and surely for him this was a great sexual convenience as well as a testament to his warring stature, he had to assume the burden of fighting off all other potential attackers, or scare them off by the retaliatory threat of raping their women. But the price of woman’s protection by some men against an abuse by others was steep. Disappointed and disillusioned by the inherent female incapacity to protect, she became estranged in a very real sense from other females, a problem that haunts the social organization of women to this very day. And those who did assume the historic burden of her protection—later formalized as husband, father, brother, clan—extracted more than a pound of flesh. They reduced her status to that of chattel. The historic price of woman’s protection by man against man was the imposition of chastity and monogamy. A crime committed against her body became a crime against the male estate.

The earliest form of permanent, protective conjugal relationship, the accommodation called mating that we now know as marriage, appears to have been institutionalized by the male’s forcible abduction and rape of the female. No quaint formality, bride capture, as it came to be known, was a very real struggle: a male took title to a female, staked a claim to her body, as it were, by an act of violence. Forcible seizure was a perfectly acceptable way—to men—of acquiring women, and it existed in England as late as the fifteenth century. Eleanor of Aquitaine, according to a biographer, lived her early life in terror of being “rapt” by a vassal who might through appropriation of her body gain title to her considerable property. Bride capture exists to this day in the rain forests of the Philippines, where the Tasadays were recently discovered to be plying their Stone Age civilization. Remnants of the philosophy of forcible abduction and marriage still influence the social mores of rural Sicily and parts of Africa. A proverb of the exogamous Bantu-speaking Gusiis of southwest Kenya goes “Those whom we marry are those whom we fight.”
It seems eminently sensible to hypothesize that man’s violent capture and rape of the female led first to the establishment of a rudimentary mate-protectorate and then sometime later to the full-blown male solidification of power, the patriarchy. 

As the first permanent acquisition of man, his first piece of real property, woman was, in fact, the original building block, the cornerstone, of the “house of the father.” Man’s forcible extension of his boundaries to his mate and later to their offspring was the beginning of his concept of ownership. Concepts of hierarchy, slavery and private property flowed from, and could only be predicated upon, the initial subjugation of woman.

A female definition of rape can be contained in a single sentence. If a woman chooses not to have intercourse with a specific man and the man chooses to proceed against her will, that is a criminal act of rape. Through no fault of woman, this is not and never has been the legal definition. The ancient patriarchs who came together to write their early covenants had used the rape of women to forge their own male power—how then could they see rape as a crime of man against woman? Women were wholly owned subsidiaries and not independent beings. Rape could not be envisioned as a matter of female consent or refusal; nor could a definition acceptable to males be based on a male-female understanding of a female’s right to her bodily integrity. Rape entered the law through the back door, as it were, as a property crime of man against man. Woman, of course, was viewed as the property.
Edited Apr 22 2025, 3:53 AM by star-stung.
star-stung
Apr 22 2025, 3:46 AM #1

Recently I reread "Against Our Will" and I'm curious about your opinions on this quote from the introduction. There are feminists that claim that the patriarchy started X thousand years ago (I've seen 10 000 years at most) but I think it goes way, way back. 

I'm of the opinion that it all started when the first male decided to use his biological advantages to harm a woman for personal gain, other men following suit, and this quote might just explain how the first act of female exploitation was rape. 

It also presents the idea that women didn't start as helpless and passive and actually had "a prescient vision of her right to her own physical integrity" that they tried to preserve to the best of their abilities, and when that failed, they started obeying men to minimize the harm. 



Man’s structural capacity to rape and woman’s corresponding structural vulnerability are as basic to the physiology of both our sexes as the primal act of sex itself. Had it not been for this accident of biology, an accommodation requiring the locking together of two separate parts, penis into vagina, there would be neither copulation nor rape as we know it. 

Anatomically one might want to improve on the design of nature, but such speculation appears to my mind as unrealistic. The human sex act accomplishes its historic purpose of generation of the species and it also affords some intimacy and pleasure. I have no basic quarrel with the procedure. But, nevertheless, we cannot work around the fact that in terms of human anatomy the possibility of forcible intercourse incontrovertibly exists. This single factor may have been sufficient to have caused the creation of a male ideology of rape. When men discovered that they could rape, they proceeded to do it. Later, much later, under certain circumstances they even came to consider rape a crime.

In the violent landscape inhabited by primitive woman and man, some woman somewhere had a prescient vision of her right to her own physical integrity, and in my mind’s eye I can picture her fighting like hell to preserve it. After a thunderbolt of recognition that this particular incarnation of hairy, two-legged hominid was not the Homo sapiens with whom she would like to freely join parts, it might have been she, and not some man, who picked up the first stone and hurled it. How surprised he must have been, and what an unexpected battle must have taken place. Fleet of foot and spirited, she would have kicked, bitten, pushed and run, but she could not retaliate in kind.

The dim perception that had entered prehistoric woman’s consciousness must have had an equal but opposite reaction in the mind of her male assailant. For if the first rape was an unexpected battle founded on the first woman’s refusal, the second rape was indubitably planned. Indeed, one of the earliest forms of male bonding must have been the gang rape of one woman by a band of marauding men. This accomplished, rape became not only a male prerogative, but man’s basic weapon of force against woman, the principal agent of his will and her fear. His forcible entry into her body, despite her physical protestations and struggle, became the vehicle of his victorious conquest over her being, the ultimate test of his superior strength, the triumph of his manhood.

Man’s discovery that his genitalia could serve as a weapon to generate fear must rank as one of the most important discoveries of prehistoric times, along with the use of fire and the first crude stone axe. From prehistoric times to the present, I believe, rape has played a critical function. It is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear.


And from the second chapter... 


FROM THE HUMBLEST BEGINNINGS of the social order based on a primitive system of retaliatory force—the lex talionis: an eye for an eye—woman was unequal before the law. By anatomical fiat—the inescapable construction of their genital organs—the human male was a natural predator and the human female served as his natural prey. Not only might the female be subjected at will to a thoroughly detestable physical conquest from which there could be no retaliation in kind—a rape for a rape—but the consequences of such a brutal struggle might be death or injury, not to mention impregnation and the birth of a dependent child.


One possibility, and one possibility alone, was available to woman. Those of her own sex whom she might call to her aid were more often than not smaller and weaker than her male attackers. More critical, they lacked the basic physical wherewithal for punitive vengeance; at best they could maintain only a limited defensive action. But among those creatures who were her predators, some might serve as her chosen protectors. Perhaps it was thus that the risky bargain was struck. Female fear of an open season of rape, and not a natural inclination toward monogamy, motherhood or love, was probably the single causative factor in the original subjugation of woman by man, the most important key to her historic dependence, her domestication by protective mating.

Once the male took title to a specific female body, and surely for him this was a great sexual convenience as well as a testament to his warring stature, he had to assume the burden of fighting off all other potential attackers, or scare them off by the retaliatory threat of raping their women. But the price of woman’s protection by some men against an abuse by others was steep. Disappointed and disillusioned by the inherent female incapacity to protect, she became estranged in a very real sense from other females, a problem that haunts the social organization of women to this very day. And those who did assume the historic burden of her protection—later formalized as husband, father, brother, clan—extracted more than a pound of flesh. They reduced her status to that of chattel. The historic price of woman’s protection by man against man was the imposition of chastity and monogamy. A crime committed against her body became a crime against the male estate.

The earliest form of permanent, protective conjugal relationship, the accommodation called mating that we now know as marriage, appears to have been institutionalized by the male’s forcible abduction and rape of the female. No quaint formality, bride capture, as it came to be known, was a very real struggle: a male took title to a female, staked a claim to her body, as it were, by an act of violence. Forcible seizure was a perfectly acceptable way—to men—of acquiring women, and it existed in England as late as the fifteenth century. Eleanor of Aquitaine, according to a biographer, lived her early life in terror of being “rapt” by a vassal who might through appropriation of her body gain title to her considerable property. Bride capture exists to this day in the rain forests of the Philippines, where the Tasadays were recently discovered to be plying their Stone Age civilization. Remnants of the philosophy of forcible abduction and marriage still influence the social mores of rural Sicily and parts of Africa. A proverb of the exogamous Bantu-speaking Gusiis of southwest Kenya goes “Those whom we marry are those whom we fight.”
It seems eminently sensible to hypothesize that man’s violent capture and rape of the female led first to the establishment of a rudimentary mate-protectorate and then sometime later to the full-blown male solidification of power, the patriarchy. 

As the first permanent acquisition of man, his first piece of real property, woman was, in fact, the original building block, the cornerstone, of the “house of the father.” Man’s forcible extension of his boundaries to his mate and later to their offspring was the beginning of his concept of ownership. Concepts of hierarchy, slavery and private property flowed from, and could only be predicated upon, the initial subjugation of woman.

A female definition of rape can be contained in a single sentence. If a woman chooses not to have intercourse with a specific man and the man chooses to proceed against her will, that is a criminal act of rape. Through no fault of woman, this is not and never has been the legal definition. The ancient patriarchs who came together to write their early covenants had used the rape of women to forge their own male power—how then could they see rape as a crime of man against woman? Women were wholly owned subsidiaries and not independent beings. Rape could not be envisioned as a matter of female consent or refusal; nor could a definition acceptable to males be based on a male-female understanding of a female’s right to her bodily integrity. Rape entered the law through the back door, as it were, as a property crime of man against man. Woman, of course, was viewed as the property.

Clover
Kozlik's regular account 🍀🐐
872
Apr 22 2025, 2:35 PM
#2
I agree that it goes way back.

I recall one piece of writing that thought that before humans understood that sex caused pregnancy, they thought pregnancy was spontaneous and celebrated when a woman became pregnant and like, honored her, as they thought they were blessed or something. The author talked about how this was at a point where there was a lot of goddess worship. But once humans figured out men cause women to get pregnant after sex, goddess worship disappeared and men started being worshipped instead or something. This was when the overarching themes of male worship and "honoring" patriarchy started. (I can't remember what this all was from, I just read about it somewhere as a theory on the start of patriarchy.)

But even before these tribes and even if there was goddess worship in them, there was rape for as long as humans existed. Rape is animalistic, violent, and predatory. I think until humans figured out that sex causes pregnancy, men raping women was for their shortsighted sexual urges. Rape is sexual assault, and like Brownmiller points out, women likely fought back. And if a particular human tribe was pro-social, they would hopefully attack/kick out a rapist just as they would any other human who was physically assaulting their fellow tribes people in any other way. But once humans began to learn intercourse causes pregnancy, that is when rape really took off as a means to control women, like the Brownmiller points out. When men could figure out rape = pregnancy = weakness and even the possible death of a woman = control over female people, that really kicked the formation of patriarchies into high gear.

Though rape is not the only way ancient men could exert control over women. The standard strength disparity was also a likely tool used to make women live in fear and subjugation. Much faster to see the cause and effect of using physical violence on someone weaker than oneself as a way to gain control over situations.
Clover
Kozlik's regular account 🍀🐐
Apr 22 2025, 2:35 PM #2

I agree that it goes way back.

I recall one piece of writing that thought that before humans understood that sex caused pregnancy, they thought pregnancy was spontaneous and celebrated when a woman became pregnant and like, honored her, as they thought they were blessed or something. The author talked about how this was at a point where there was a lot of goddess worship. But once humans figured out men cause women to get pregnant after sex, goddess worship disappeared and men started being worshipped instead or something. This was when the overarching themes of male worship and "honoring" patriarchy started. (I can't remember what this all was from, I just read about it somewhere as a theory on the start of patriarchy.)

But even before these tribes and even if there was goddess worship in them, there was rape for as long as humans existed. Rape is animalistic, violent, and predatory. I think until humans figured out that sex causes pregnancy, men raping women was for their shortsighted sexual urges. Rape is sexual assault, and like Brownmiller points out, women likely fought back. And if a particular human tribe was pro-social, they would hopefully attack/kick out a rapist just as they would any other human who was physically assaulting their fellow tribes people in any other way. But once humans began to learn intercourse causes pregnancy, that is when rape really took off as a means to control women, like the Brownmiller points out. When men could figure out rape = pregnancy = weakness and even the possible death of a woman = control over female people, that really kicked the formation of patriarchies into high gear.

Though rape is not the only way ancient men could exert control over women. The standard strength disparity was also a likely tool used to make women live in fear and subjugation. Much faster to see the cause and effect of using physical violence on someone weaker than oneself as a way to gain control over situations.

Apr 23 2025, 1:33 AM
#3
star-stung women didn't start as helpless and passive and actually had "a prescient vision of her right to her own physical integrity" that they tried to preserve to the best of their abilities, and when that failed, they started obeying men to minimize the harm.

This is basically my opinion on the matter as well. 

I hope I'm not derailing this thread, but I... had thoughts. I haven't actually read this book, but these quotes got me thinking about texts I have that deal with, what seems to be, very similar subject matter. 

I would highly recommend you look into some of the work of Dr. Barbara B. Smuts. She is an anthropologist and psychologist who wrote multiple papers about male aggression against females and the development of patriarchy. She concurs with your belief that patriarchy goes way, way back. In one of her papers, she hypothesizes that it goes back even millions of years of human evolution. She conducted research into primate behavior back in the 90s and most of her analysis of patriarchy is based in that, as well as anthological studies of human behavior across cultures.

Specifically, I would recommend these papers:
The Evolutionary Origins of Patriarchy, Barbara Smuts, 1995

Male Aggression Against Women: An Evolutionary Perspective, 1991

In the first, she lays out her analysis of the social and environmental factors that likely led to the development of patriarchy in humans. It’s worth noting that (and she does here) that patriarchy as we know it in humans is a species-specific manifestation of patterns of male violence and coercion that are also seen in many other animals, especially primates. This paper argues that human patriarchy is an unusually effective elaboration of these common animal behaviors. To be clear, this paper does not justify patriarchy in any way or suggest that because it is “natural“, it cannot or should not be changed. On the contrary, her stated purpose for writing this paper was to analyze how patriarchy emerged, how it functions now to preserve male power in the sexual conflict, and crucially, what can be done to change this situation and shift the power balance to better favor females. She writes from a position of understanding that male oppression and exploitation of females is fundamentally wrong and something must be done about it.

The second paper is covers some similar territory, though it deals specifically with male aggression against females, its motivation and how to prevent it. As part of this analysis, she explains a hypothesis for how marriage developed and what its purpose is within patriarchal structures. Essentially, she characterizes it as a way for males to mitigate conflicts between themselves over mates, by allowing males to come to socially-accepted agreements over which females belonged to which males, and extension, which female(s) a male could rape without fearing interference from other males. 

I have these papers saved in PDF form. I used to have links, but they strangely don’t seem to work anymore. If you’re interested, I can post some excerpts here. It’s been a long time since I read them last. I’m summarizing them from memory here, so I might not be getting all the details right. But these papers were very useful for me in understanding a lot of these things better, so I do recommend you read them if you can find them.

Clover that before humans understood that sex caused pregnancy

My take is that it is extremely unlikely that there was ever a time before humans understood that sex caused pregnancy or that males fathered offspring through sex with females. Pretty much all sexually reproducing animals understand this implicitly, and it shows in their behavior. This understanding the entire reason why sexual selection occurs and why it is an important evolutionary force. Females deliberately (at least, as much as they can) mate with males they believe to be “strategic” fathers of their offspring, though, there are many factors that go into their choices, and “genes” aren’t really the sole motivator, contrary to population belief (I will recommend Smut’s papers again here, because she talks about the strategic mate choices female make in order to protect their interests). This understanding is also the motivator of a lot of male behavior. Males are implicitly aware that by having sex with a particular female, they increase their chances of fathering her offspring. Males are known to behave much differently around the offspring of females they have previously mated with, taking a much greater interest in them than other infants, even caring for them, provisioning them with resources, etc. Possibly most significantly, males are much, much less likely to commit infanticide against infants they believe might be theirs (i.e., infants whose mothers they previously mated with). This is common knowledge among all animals and it is likely to have been for ancient humans too.

Clover Though rape is not the only way ancient men could exert control over women.

Rape is more than just a way that males control females. Males seek to exert physical control over females, in order to rape them with impunity. Rape is a strategy males use to get around female “choosiness” (perhaps not the best choice of word, but you understand what I mean) or unwillingness to mate with them, in order to protect their reproductive interests. Males use physical violence against females in order to motivate them to submit to rape and to punish females who refuse to do so. The point of patriarchy is to protect male reproductive interests, that is to protect male’s interest in fathering offspring they know are theirs, and part of that is protecting male ability to rape females (at least specific females, like their own wives, or women who "have no owner", i.e. unmarried or prostituted women). The fear of rape (by certain males) is used to condition females to submit (usually to other males), but the prevalence of rape itself is really a product of male control and patriarchy. Male interest in protecting their paternity is in direct conflict with female reproductive interests in mothering offspring that they choose to have and protecting themselves and their offspring from harm, an interest which females go to great lengths to protect. This conflict of interests is the sexual conflict and is why power dynamics between males and females are often so fraught. I will note that matriarchal, or female-dominated species, such as elephants or bonobos, can often have friendlier, more peaceful interactions between males and females, without rape or infanticide, because females' ability to protect their own interests prevents males from using these strategies to harm them.

Anyway, I found these quotes to be very interesting. I think I will leave this here and will go check out her book now.
periwinkle
Apr 23 2025, 1:33 AM #3

star-stung women didn't start as helpless and passive and actually had "a prescient vision of her right to her own physical integrity" that they tried to preserve to the best of their abilities, and when that failed, they started obeying men to minimize the harm.

This is basically my opinion on the matter as well. 

I hope I'm not derailing this thread, but I... had thoughts. I haven't actually read this book, but these quotes got me thinking about texts I have that deal with, what seems to be, very similar subject matter. 

I would highly recommend you look into some of the work of Dr. Barbara B. Smuts. She is an anthropologist and psychologist who wrote multiple papers about male aggression against females and the development of patriarchy. She concurs with your belief that patriarchy goes way, way back. In one of her papers, she hypothesizes that it goes back even millions of years of human evolution. She conducted research into primate behavior back in the 90s and most of her analysis of patriarchy is based in that, as well as anthological studies of human behavior across cultures.

Specifically, I would recommend these papers:
The Evolutionary Origins of Patriarchy, Barbara Smuts, 1995

Male Aggression Against Women: An Evolutionary Perspective, 1991

In the first, she lays out her analysis of the social and environmental factors that likely led to the development of patriarchy in humans. It’s worth noting that (and she does here) that patriarchy as we know it in humans is a species-specific manifestation of patterns of male violence and coercion that are also seen in many other animals, especially primates. This paper argues that human patriarchy is an unusually effective elaboration of these common animal behaviors. To be clear, this paper does not justify patriarchy in any way or suggest that because it is “natural“, it cannot or should not be changed. On the contrary, her stated purpose for writing this paper was to analyze how patriarchy emerged, how it functions now to preserve male power in the sexual conflict, and crucially, what can be done to change this situation and shift the power balance to better favor females. She writes from a position of understanding that male oppression and exploitation of females is fundamentally wrong and something must be done about it.

The second paper is covers some similar territory, though it deals specifically with male aggression against females, its motivation and how to prevent it. As part of this analysis, she explains a hypothesis for how marriage developed and what its purpose is within patriarchal structures. Essentially, she characterizes it as a way for males to mitigate conflicts between themselves over mates, by allowing males to come to socially-accepted agreements over which females belonged to which males, and extension, which female(s) a male could rape without fearing interference from other males. 

I have these papers saved in PDF form. I used to have links, but they strangely don’t seem to work anymore. If you’re interested, I can post some excerpts here. It’s been a long time since I read them last. I’m summarizing them from memory here, so I might not be getting all the details right. But these papers were very useful for me in understanding a lot of these things better, so I do recommend you read them if you can find them.

Clover that before humans understood that sex caused pregnancy

My take is that it is extremely unlikely that there was ever a time before humans understood that sex caused pregnancy or that males fathered offspring through sex with females. Pretty much all sexually reproducing animals understand this implicitly, and it shows in their behavior. This understanding the entire reason why sexual selection occurs and why it is an important evolutionary force. Females deliberately (at least, as much as they can) mate with males they believe to be “strategic” fathers of their offspring, though, there are many factors that go into their choices, and “genes” aren’t really the sole motivator, contrary to population belief (I will recommend Smut’s papers again here, because she talks about the strategic mate choices female make in order to protect their interests). This understanding is also the motivator of a lot of male behavior. Males are implicitly aware that by having sex with a particular female, they increase their chances of fathering her offspring. Males are known to behave much differently around the offspring of females they have previously mated with, taking a much greater interest in them than other infants, even caring for them, provisioning them with resources, etc. Possibly most significantly, males are much, much less likely to commit infanticide against infants they believe might be theirs (i.e., infants whose mothers they previously mated with). This is common knowledge among all animals and it is likely to have been for ancient humans too.

Clover Though rape is not the only way ancient men could exert control over women.

Rape is more than just a way that males control females. Males seek to exert physical control over females, in order to rape them with impunity. Rape is a strategy males use to get around female “choosiness” (perhaps not the best choice of word, but you understand what I mean) or unwillingness to mate with them, in order to protect their reproductive interests. Males use physical violence against females in order to motivate them to submit to rape and to punish females who refuse to do so. The point of patriarchy is to protect male reproductive interests, that is to protect male’s interest in fathering offspring they know are theirs, and part of that is protecting male ability to rape females (at least specific females, like their own wives, or women who "have no owner", i.e. unmarried or prostituted women). The fear of rape (by certain males) is used to condition females to submit (usually to other males), but the prevalence of rape itself is really a product of male control and patriarchy. Male interest in protecting their paternity is in direct conflict with female reproductive interests in mothering offspring that they choose to have and protecting themselves and their offspring from harm, an interest which females go to great lengths to protect. This conflict of interests is the sexual conflict and is why power dynamics between males and females are often so fraught. I will note that matriarchal, or female-dominated species, such as elephants or bonobos, can often have friendlier, more peaceful interactions between males and females, without rape or infanticide, because females' ability to protect their own interests prevents males from using these strategies to harm them.

Anyway, I found these quotes to be very interesting. I think I will leave this here and will go check out her book now.

Apr 23 2025, 4:10 AM
#4
If rape causes patriarchy and if, as Brownmiller acknowledges, copulation and rape are the same act, what role does willing copulation play in the persistence of male supremacism?

Brownmiller: Had it not been for this accident of biology, an accommodation requiring the locking together of two separate parts, penis into vagina, there would be neither copulation nor rape as we know it.
OffMyTit
Apr 23 2025, 4:10 AM #4

If rape causes patriarchy and if, as Brownmiller acknowledges, copulation and rape are the same act, what role does willing copulation play in the persistence of male supremacism?

Brownmiller: Had it not been for this accident of biology, an accommodation requiring the locking together of two separate parts, penis into vagina, there would be neither copulation nor rape as we know it.

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