Article Donald Trump doesn’t know what a woman is, either
Article Donald Trump doesn’t know what a woman is, either
komorebi
“I am not free while any woman is unfree, even when her shackles are very different from my own.” – Audre Lorde
“I am not free while any woman is unfree, even when her shackles are very different from my own.” – Audre Lorde
27
Nov 23 2024, 11:51 PM
https://thecritic.co.uk/donald-trump-doesnt-know-what-a-woman-is-either/
Quote:Donald Trump’s return to the White House is not a victory for women and girls. Such a statement ought to be uncontroversial — there are the rape accusations, the endorsement of sexual assault, the threat of a further erosion of reproductive rights. Men who say they’ll protect women “whether they like it or not” do not want to protect women as people, only as property. Trump’s is a misogyny so obvious, so plainly in sight, it almost feels boring to comment on it, let alone to acknowledge the full horror of what it means.
But hey, at least he knows what a woman is.
I have seen variations on this line ever since his victory was announced. Trump might hate women (amongst multiple other groups), but unlike many of his opponents on the left, at least he’s not denying the existence of the entire female sex class. At least he’s not calling women bigots and bullies for complaining about male competitors on their swimming teams, male bodies in their changing rooms, male rapists in their prison cells. At least he might put a stop to this form of rampant misogyny, regardless of whether he’s doing it for the right reasons. I don’t think he will, though. It’s not that I don’t understand the anger; I just don’t think this is how this problem can be solved. You can’t fight misogyny with misogyny (or rather, you can — but either way, women will lose).
I love Victoria Smith. She always says exactly what I'm thinking, but way more incisively and concisely than I'd be able to.
Opinion piece by Victoria Smith, 13 November 2024.
https://thecritic.co.uk/donald-trump-doesnt-know-what-a-woman-is-either/
Quote:Donald Trump’s return to the White House is not a victory for women and girls. Such a statement ought to be uncontroversial — there are the rape accusations, the endorsement of sexual assault, the threat of a further erosion of reproductive rights. Men who say they’ll protect women “whether they like it or not” do not want to protect women as people, only as property. Trump’s is a misogyny so obvious, so plainly in sight, it almost feels boring to comment on it, let alone to acknowledge the full horror of what it means.
But hey, at least he knows what a woman is.
I have seen variations on this line ever since his victory was announced. Trump might hate women (amongst multiple other groups), but unlike many of his opponents on the left, at least he’s not denying the existence of the entire female sex class. At least he’s not calling women bigots and bullies for complaining about male competitors on their swimming teams, male bodies in their changing rooms, male rapists in their prison cells. At least he might put a stop to this form of rampant misogyny, regardless of whether he’s doing it for the right reasons. I don’t think he will, though. It’s not that I don’t understand the anger; I just don’t think this is how this problem can be solved. You can’t fight misogyny with misogyny (or rather, you can — but either way, women will lose).
I love Victoria Smith. She always says exactly what I'm thinking, but way more incisively and concisely than I'd be able to.
Nov 24 2024, 3:22 PM
"Victoria Smith It’s not that I don’t understand the anger; I just don’t think this is how this problem can be solved. You can’t fight misogyny with misogyny (or rather, you can — but either way, women will lose).
Exactly! This is what I got so sick of seeing on Ovarit. Conservative women acting like Trump will "save women" because he happens to know a man pretending to be a woman isn't a woman.
Yeah, congrats, Trump and his administration know "what a woman is"... in the stereotypically sexist conservative way, that women are destined to be babymakers and stay "in their lane" by relegating themselves to the private sphere (being housewives). The Trump administration sure knows what a woman is when they start continuing to enable states and possibly even getting the federal government to erode our reproductive rights. Really big win there.
"Victoria Smith It’s not that I don’t understand the anger; I just don’t think this is how this problem can be solved. You can’t fight misogyny with misogyny (or rather, you can — but either way, women will lose).
Exactly! This is what I got so sick of seeing on Ovarit. Conservative women acting like Trump will "save women" because he happens to know a man pretending to be a woman isn't a woman.
Yeah, congrats, Trump and his administration know "what a woman is"... in the stereotypically sexist conservative way, that women are destined to be babymakers and stay "in their lane" by relegating themselves to the private sphere (being housewives). The Trump administration sure knows what a woman is when they start continuing to enable states and possibly even getting the federal government to erode our reproductive rights. Really big win there.
komorebi
“I am not free while any woman is unfree, even when her shackles are very different from my own.” – Audre Lorde
“I am not free while any woman is unfree, even when her shackles are very different from my own.” – Audre Lorde
27
Nov 24 2024, 10:09 PM
Quote:Believing that the sexes are different does not mean appreciating their humanity in full.
Yep—they know what women are. To them, women are chattel, property, domestic slaves, bangmaids, and babymakers. To them, women are lesser. Honestly, her subheading kind of summed it up:
Quote:Believing that the sexes are different does not mean appreciating their humanity in full.
Nov 25 2024, 6:43 AM
Some slightly more self-aware ones will hide behind "even a broken clock is right twice a day", as if the broken liberal clock isn't ten times more right compared to that.
It's unbelievable how quickly straight women especially run back to bootlicking the second men find some superficially similar point to exploit for male benefit. Oh wow they think bathrooms should be separate because girl bathrooms have cooties and they don't want other men to damage their property, give them a fucking feminist medal.
Edited Nov 25 2024, 6:47 AM by YesYourNigel.
YesYourNigel
Nov 25 2024, 6:43 AM #4I'm sorry, just the mere implication that Trump could in any way be good for women is making it hard to get past the first sentence. How stupid can you be? I empathise with the fact that patriarchal brainwashing is difficult to shake off and motivated in strong part by the fawn response, but at some point the misogyny is so overt that it should override the brainwashing of even the most handmaideny woman. This seems to be the classic case of "Muh Nigel cares about my rights because the possibility of accidentally banging a dude is making him testerical! I better reblog all his influencers and podcasters for how feminist they are just because they called men in dresses cucks!"
Some slightly more self-aware ones will hide behind "even a broken clock is right twice a day", as if the broken liberal clock isn't ten times more right compared to that.
It's unbelievable how quickly straight women especially run back to bootlicking the second men find some superficially similar point to exploit for male benefit. Oh wow they think bathrooms should be separate because girl bathrooms have cooties and they don't want other men to damage their property, give them a fucking feminist medal.
Nov 25 2024, 11:49 AM
YesYourNigel I'm sorry, just the mere implication that Trump could in any way be good for women is making it hard to get past the first sentence. How stupid can you be?
I think the author is trying to balance two audiences with this piece: liberal women who are still pro-trans but are still trying to be open-minded; and gender critical feminists looking to be felt/seen/validated.
I honestly don't think she even wrote this with conservative or "moderate" women in mind.
YesYourNigel Some slightly more self-aware ones will hide behind "even a broken clock is right twice a day", as if the broken liberal clock isn't ten times more right compared to that.
I think the author agrees with you:
Victoria Smith In the end I think there is far more potential for “liberal” sex denialists to be led back to reason than there is for right-wing patriarchs to ever drop their own flawed definition of “woman”. We are already seeing the former in some parts of the UK left and god knows, the process is annoying. It is maddening to think of all the unpicking that will be required to remove these toxic ideas from so many institutions, and no one will ever apologise for the mess they were complicit in creating. It is better, though, than throwing one’s lot in with men who demonise and pathologise all forms of gender non-conformity — men who have no interest in changing at all.
We are far more likely to convince leftists/liberals who got swindled into thinking transgenderism was a progressive cause to realize it's actually sexist consumerism than we are to convince conservatives that gender is bad. Conservatives don't agree that "gender is bad", they just don't like how transgenderism's version of gender is styled, and they want their "classic edition" gender back.
YesYourNigel I'm sorry, just the mere implication that Trump could in any way be good for women is making it hard to get past the first sentence. How stupid can you be?
I think the author is trying to balance two audiences with this piece: liberal women who are still pro-trans but are still trying to be open-minded; and gender critical feminists looking to be felt/seen/validated.
I honestly don't think she even wrote this with conservative or "moderate" women in mind.
YesYourNigel Some slightly more self-aware ones will hide behind "even a broken clock is right twice a day", as if the broken liberal clock isn't ten times more right compared to that.
I think the author agrees with you:
Victoria Smith In the end I think there is far more potential for “liberal” sex denialists to be led back to reason than there is for right-wing patriarchs to ever drop their own flawed definition of “woman”. We are already seeing the former in some parts of the UK left and god knows, the process is annoying. It is maddening to think of all the unpicking that will be required to remove these toxic ideas from so many institutions, and no one will ever apologise for the mess they were complicit in creating. It is better, though, than throwing one’s lot in with men who demonise and pathologise all forms of gender non-conformity — men who have no interest in changing at all.
We are far more likely to convince leftists/liberals who got swindled into thinking transgenderism was a progressive cause to realize it's actually sexist consumerism than we are to convince conservatives that gender is bad. Conservatives don't agree that "gender is bad", they just don't like how transgenderism's version of gender is styled, and they want their "classic edition" gender back.
komorebi
“I am not free while any woman is unfree, even when her shackles are very different from my own.” – Audre Lorde
“I am not free while any woman is unfree, even when her shackles are very different from my own.” – Audre Lorde
27
Nov 25 2024, 1:11 PM
For what it's worth, I came here from Ovarit recently and decided to participate actively because I also agree with you. I wanted to get away from the Trump apologism and the firehose of disinformation. It was not my intention to post a piece of Trump apologia myself, and I didn't interpret it that way when I decided to share it.
:) If there is a particular part of the article which you find contentious, perhaps you can share it and we can discuss it?
Hey YesYourNigel! Sorry you didn't like the piece. I think we may have gotten different things out of it, because I understood the author to be agreeing with you.
For what it's worth, I came here from Ovarit recently and decided to participate actively because I also agree with you. I wanted to get away from the Trump apologism and the firehose of disinformation. It was not my intention to post a piece of Trump apologia myself, and I didn't interpret it that way when I decided to share it.
:) If there is a particular part of the article which you find contentious, perhaps you can share it and we can discuss it?
Nov 26 2024, 12:25 PM
Actually I feel like using a word like "manipulated" implies too much effort on men's part. Men don't even make a pretense of caring about women, a fucking human trafficker and rapist/wifebeater can just copy+paste "There are only two genders!" because he only wants one gender to be his sex slaves, and women will start fawning over how he's standing up for women's rights and how brave he is and repost him to Ovarit.
Men cherrypick feminism and rewrite it into male-pandering exploitation because they only care about their own asses and female socialisation takes care of the rest.
Edited Nov 26 2024, 12:34 PM by YesYourNigel.
YesYourNigel
Nov 26 2024, 12:25 PM #7There was a misunderstanding - my contention wasn't with the article or the author (which yes, does argue that Trump isn't good for women) but more with the fact that I just can't believe that we've even gotten to the point where this needs to be said or proven in any way. And sadly yes, it needs to be pushed more and more, especially considering the conservative handmaiden shitpool that Ovarit and some GC spaces have turned into as a result of selective gatekeeping (libfems are traitorous handmaidens but conservative women and their Nigel's MRA influencers are just misunderstood and you should 😁Be KiNd😁 to them), because so many women are getting manipulated and scammed as usual by men exploting genuine women's grievances for personal gain, just like with liberal feminism.
Actually I feel like using a word like "manipulated" implies too much effort on men's part. Men don't even make a pretense of caring about women, a fucking human trafficker and rapist/wifebeater can just copy+paste "There are only two genders!" because he only wants one gender to be his sex slaves, and women will start fawning over how he's standing up for women's rights and how brave he is and repost him to Ovarit.
Men cherrypick feminism and rewrite it into male-pandering exploitation because they only care about their own asses and female socialisation takes care of the rest.
komorebi
“I am not free while any woman is unfree, even when her shackles are very different from my own.” – Audre Lorde
“I am not free while any woman is unfree, even when her shackles are very different from my own.” – Audre Lorde
27
Nov 26 2024, 2:15 PM
(Nov 26 2024, 12:25 PM)YesYourNigel There was a misunderstanding - my contention wasn't with the article or the author (which yes, does argue that Trump isn't good for women) but more with the fact that I just can't believe that we've even gotten to the point where this needs to be said or proven in any way. And sadly yes, it needs to be pushed more and more, especially considering the conservative handmaiden shitpool that Ovarit and some GC spaces have turned into as a result of selective gatekeeping (libfems are traitorous handmaidens but conservative women and their Nigel's MRA influencers are just misunderstood and you should 😁Be KiNd😁 to them), because so many women are getting manipulated and scammed as usual by men exploting genuine women's grievances for personal gain, just like with liberal feminism.
Oh, I'm sorry, I definitely misunderstood! Yes, I agree with you, it's incredibly frustrating. I find libfems annoying as well, but that doesn't magically make the conservative equivalent super enlightened the way some people imply.
Ultimately, I subscribe to Dworkin's statement that feminism is the political practice of "fighting male supremacy on behalf of women as a class, including all the women you don't like, including all the women you don't want to be around," etc. It's reasonable to vent sometimes about the difficulty of dealing with libfems, but I think a great many of them are not merely venting but actively tearing other women down—and deriving great enjoyment from it. On top of that, the fact that we're not allowed to make equivalent, reasonable criticisms of conservative handmaidens is troubling to me. I can't help but see it as part of the global trend towards right-wing authoritarianism.
😔 I appreciate that we at least have this space where we can unequivocally say that Trump getting elected is bad for women without having to fend off a thousand stupid comments about how "at least he knows what a woman is!"
(Nov 26 2024, 12:25 PM)YesYourNigel There was a misunderstanding - my contention wasn't with the article or the author (which yes, does argue that Trump isn't good for women) but more with the fact that I just can't believe that we've even gotten to the point where this needs to be said or proven in any way. And sadly yes, it needs to be pushed more and more, especially considering the conservative handmaiden shitpool that Ovarit and some GC spaces have turned into as a result of selective gatekeeping (libfems are traitorous handmaidens but conservative women and their Nigel's MRA influencers are just misunderstood and you should 😁Be KiNd😁 to them), because so many women are getting manipulated and scammed as usual by men exploting genuine women's grievances for personal gain, just like with liberal feminism.
Oh, I'm sorry, I definitely misunderstood! Yes, I agree with you, it's incredibly frustrating. I find libfems annoying as well, but that doesn't magically make the conservative equivalent super enlightened the way some people imply.
Ultimately, I subscribe to Dworkin's statement that feminism is the political practice of "fighting male supremacy on behalf of women as a class, including all the women you don't like, including all the women you don't want to be around," etc. It's reasonable to vent sometimes about the difficulty of dealing with libfems, but I think a great many of them are not merely venting but actively tearing other women down—and deriving great enjoyment from it. On top of that, the fact that we're not allowed to make equivalent, reasonable criticisms of conservative handmaidens is troubling to me. I can't help but see it as part of the global trend towards right-wing authoritarianism.
😔 I appreciate that we at least have this space where we can unequivocally say that Trump getting elected is bad for women without having to fend off a thousand stupid comments about how "at least he knows what a woman is!"
Nov 26 2024, 9:13 PM
komorebi but I think a great many of them are not merely venting but actively tearing other women down—and deriving great enjoyment from it. On top of that, the fact that we're not allowed to make equivalent, reasonable criticisms of conservative handmaidens is troubling to me. I can't help but see it as part of the global trend towards right-wing authoritarianism.
Oh yeah, I kind of notice that. I feel like they do not understand when criticizing something, like libfems supporting prostitution or pornography, it's not to drag down the libfem women themselves. Like, that's not the ultimate goal. I know I've had my share of making fun of libfem takes like "makeup is empowering" "'sex work' is empowering" via Radfemmery memes, but my goal in those is to point out the absurdity of libfem stances, not to discourage women from advocating for feminism.
Sometimes I worry that those memes making fun of libfems are encouraged by conservatives in order to split apart feminist women. I feel like I see way more bashing of libfem stances and support for said bashing than I do for conservative stances that inherently harm women.
I think from the perspective of a libfem who found radical feminism, it probably feels more cathartic for her to finally express criticisms/vent against the harmful/misogynistic libfem stances, because criticizing harmful/misogynistic conservative stances would have already been common for one in libfem space. I think the issue that happens is eventually the music stops and the former libfem realizes she was spending her time criticizing libfem stances not with other radfems who want libfems to recognize deep-rooted sex-based oppression, but with conservatives who just want to see all feminists fail.
komorebi without having to fend off a thousand stupid comments about how "at least he knows what a woman is!"
Omg 😩 I just realized how it's so draining to go scroll through those kinds of messages. It's such a stupid thought-terminating cliche that tries to prevent meaningful critique of the Trump administration.
komorebi but I think a great many of them are not merely venting but actively tearing other women down—and deriving great enjoyment from it. On top of that, the fact that we're not allowed to make equivalent, reasonable criticisms of conservative handmaidens is troubling to me. I can't help but see it as part of the global trend towards right-wing authoritarianism.
Oh yeah, I kind of notice that. I feel like they do not understand when criticizing something, like libfems supporting prostitution or pornography, it's not to drag down the libfem women themselves. Like, that's not the ultimate goal. I know I've had my share of making fun of libfem takes like "makeup is empowering" "'sex work' is empowering" via Radfemmery memes, but my goal in those is to point out the absurdity of libfem stances, not to discourage women from advocating for feminism.
Sometimes I worry that those memes making fun of libfems are encouraged by conservatives in order to split apart feminist women. I feel like I see way more bashing of libfem stances and support for said bashing than I do for conservative stances that inherently harm women.
I think from the perspective of a libfem who found radical feminism, it probably feels more cathartic for her to finally express criticisms/vent against the harmful/misogynistic libfem stances, because criticizing harmful/misogynistic conservative stances would have already been common for one in libfem space. I think the issue that happens is eventually the music stops and the former libfem realizes she was spending her time criticizing libfem stances not with other radfems who want libfems to recognize deep-rooted sex-based oppression, but with conservatives who just want to see all feminists fail.
komorebi without having to fend off a thousand stupid comments about how "at least he knows what a woman is!"
Omg 😩 I just realized how it's so draining to go scroll through those kinds of messages. It's such a stupid thought-terminating cliche that tries to prevent meaningful critique of the Trump administration.
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