clovenhooves The Personal Is Political Gender Critical Kirk assassination

Kirk assassination

Kirk assassination

 
Sep 18 2025, 9:44 AM
#1
This whole thing feels like such a shitshow that I want to rant somewhere. The main reactions I'm seeing fall mainly into two camps:

The "moderates" and stealth-conservative women on Vexxed trying to get other women to play the role of unpaid wailers for this piece of shit under the guise of "🥺empathy🥺" and "he was a human being" and "think of his poor family", while downplaying or straight up ignoring this guy's violent white male supremacist rhetoric, including the statement that innocent people, children even, getting shot is a fair price to pay for getting to keep Americans' precious guns. Welp, I guess he was ready to pay the price, no problem here 🤷‍♂️ The demands for women to "turn the other cheek" and perform emotional labour to their own detriment never end.
Someone on Vexxed of all places (admittedly with a copious amount of "I think..." and "It seems to me..." softeners to avoid censorship and mod rage) also made a really excellent comment about the idiot women pretending like the attack on this man is some kind of an affront on their own personal freedom of speech. tl;dr feminist women never enjoyed any kind of respect, let alone deification from either side after being cancelled and attacked. It's the same with GC as well - conservative men who get cancelled for saying there are only two genders and get a whole army of defenders have nothing to do with the women who advocate for basic women's protections and get shat on by both sides.
Another excellent comment by the same person about the massive double standards of conservatives who demand endless self-flagellation the moment a nutcase turns out not to be a fellow conservative for a change, and also the lack of any concern or even an attempt to feign it when the political assasination strikes the opposing groups, or when the victimised person is an Untermensch. Conservatives are used to saying all kinds of vile shit with no pushback and this feels unfair to them.

The other side is liberals loudly celebrating that this piece of shit is dead and not caring about the horrible precedent set by how he died. If this guy dropped dead after choking on a carrot, I would happily piss on his grave, but killing people for their opinions should never be normalised, let alone celebrated, and I can't believe how many people don't understand this simple concept, or think you need to make yourself like and cry for whoever got killed in order to take issue with it.

Furthermore, especially with these brainless conservative reactionary and violent groups, you achieve literally nothing by violently removing a conservative figurehead. Another will take its place soon because there is no shortage or regressive men spreading the gospel of the patriarchy. And violent men who go out and blow people's brains out are no some deep thinkers and freedom fighters, they're usually just another brand of patriarchal male, except pissed off for getting the short end of the stick in their male hierarchy, and their means of revenge happened to superficially coincide with liberal values. That's why it's so often the case that these guys who did the murdering hold equally regressive views in most other areas and can't be neatly categorised as progressive the way that conservatives can.

I would not put it past this administration to fake this whole thing but at the same time, edgy and violent rhetoric is SO common in TIM-dominated spaces that I also wouldn't be surprised if that played a part. Vexxed is trying to turn Kirk into a martyr and the shooter's TIM boyfriend into a villain. Certainly TIM infested spaces, especially of the more 4chan variety, tend to promote very violent rhetoric, and ofc only towards anti-trans sentiments, not misogyny itself. You'd think misogyny would at least be on their radar, given their claims of being women, but welp. I've also seen trans people claim the shooter might've been a TIF, which...LMAO. TIFs may have been involved in a couple of shootings, but I could never in a million years imagine a TIF turning on a man, and it's completely irrelevant if that man is speaking against her own rights. TIFs like that know their place and know that it is not their place to demand equality. Hell, they're the first in line to be MRA attack dogs because they think this will net them their OneOfTheBoys card. Relating to and defending men is how these women fuel their androcentric identity. TIMs are the ones who couldn't give less of a shit about the women that they're supposedly identifying with, so they're the ones who'll go apeshit over "trans genocide" while shrugging at millions of women being beaten and murdered. Even so, a lot of people seem to be jumping on the TIM being the real villain and mastermind with no evidence for it, almost like trying to get the poor normie guy who actually did it off the hook, which is a common pattern in GC spaces.
Edited Sep 18 2025, 1:11 PM by YesYourNigel.

I refuse to debate two obvious facts: 1. the patriarchy exists 2. and that's a bad thing
YesYourNigel
Sep 18 2025, 9:44 AM #1

This whole thing feels like such a shitshow that I want to rant somewhere. The main reactions I'm seeing fall mainly into two camps:

The "moderates" and stealth-conservative women on Vexxed trying to get other women to play the role of unpaid wailers for this piece of shit under the guise of "🥺empathy🥺" and "he was a human being" and "think of his poor family", while downplaying or straight up ignoring this guy's violent white male supremacist rhetoric, including the statement that innocent people, children even, getting shot is a fair price to pay for getting to keep Americans' precious guns. Welp, I guess he was ready to pay the price, no problem here 🤷‍♂️ The demands for women to "turn the other cheek" and perform emotional labour to their own detriment never end.
Someone on Vexxed of all places (admittedly with a copious amount of "I think..." and "It seems to me..." softeners to avoid censorship and mod rage) also made a really excellent comment about the idiot women pretending like the attack on this man is some kind of an affront on their own personal freedom of speech. tl;dr feminist women never enjoyed any kind of respect, let alone deification from either side after being cancelled and attacked. It's the same with GC as well - conservative men who get cancelled for saying there are only two genders and get a whole army of defenders have nothing to do with the women who advocate for basic women's protections and get shat on by both sides.
Another excellent comment by the same person about the massive double standards of conservatives who demand endless self-flagellation the moment a nutcase turns out not to be a fellow conservative for a change, and also the lack of any concern or even an attempt to feign it when the political assasination strikes the opposing groups, or when the victimised person is an Untermensch. Conservatives are used to saying all kinds of vile shit with no pushback and this feels unfair to them.

The other side is liberals loudly celebrating that this piece of shit is dead and not caring about the horrible precedent set by how he died. If this guy dropped dead after choking on a carrot, I would happily piss on his grave, but killing people for their opinions should never be normalised, let alone celebrated, and I can't believe how many people don't understand this simple concept, or think you need to make yourself like and cry for whoever got killed in order to take issue with it.

Furthermore, especially with these brainless conservative reactionary and violent groups, you achieve literally nothing by violently removing a conservative figurehead. Another will take its place soon because there is no shortage or regressive men spreading the gospel of the patriarchy. And violent men who go out and blow people's brains out are no some deep thinkers and freedom fighters, they're usually just another brand of patriarchal male, except pissed off for getting the short end of the stick in their male hierarchy, and their means of revenge happened to superficially coincide with liberal values. That's why it's so often the case that these guys who did the murdering hold equally regressive views in most other areas and can't be neatly categorised as progressive the way that conservatives can.

I would not put it past this administration to fake this whole thing but at the same time, edgy and violent rhetoric is SO common in TIM-dominated spaces that I also wouldn't be surprised if that played a part. Vexxed is trying to turn Kirk into a martyr and the shooter's TIM boyfriend into a villain. Certainly TIM infested spaces, especially of the more 4chan variety, tend to promote very violent rhetoric, and ofc only towards anti-trans sentiments, not misogyny itself. You'd think misogyny would at least be on their radar, given their claims of being women, but welp. I've also seen trans people claim the shooter might've been a TIF, which...LMAO. TIFs may have been involved in a couple of shootings, but I could never in a million years imagine a TIF turning on a man, and it's completely irrelevant if that man is speaking against her own rights. TIFs like that know their place and know that it is not their place to demand equality. Hell, they're the first in line to be MRA attack dogs because they think this will net them their OneOfTheBoys card. Relating to and defending men is how these women fuel their androcentric identity. TIMs are the ones who couldn't give less of a shit about the women that they're supposedly identifying with, so they're the ones who'll go apeshit over "trans genocide" while shrugging at millions of women being beaten and murdered. Even so, a lot of people seem to be jumping on the TIM being the real villain and mastermind with no evidence for it, almost like trying to get the poor normie guy who actually did it off the hook, which is a common pattern in GC spaces.


I refuse to debate two obvious facts: 1. the patriarchy exists 2. and that's a bad thing

Clover
Kozlik's regular account 🍀🐐
1,198
Sep 18 2025, 4:45 PM
#2
(Sep 18 2025, 9:44 AM)YesYourNigel The "moderates" and stealth-conservative women on Vexxed trying to get other women to play the role of unpaid wailers for this piece of shit under the guise of "🥺empathy🥺" and "he was a human being" and "think of his poor family", while downplaying or straight up ignoring this guy's violent white male supremacist rhetoric, including the statement that innocent people, children even, getting shot is a fair price to pay for getting to keep Americans' precious guns.

This is especially rich, because I remember a discussion on Ovarit where I was attempting to get fellow users to possibly have some empathy for homeless people or something of the sort, only to be refuted with claims that empathy is finite (tf? No it's not) and that they've essentially run out of fucks to give and that those people don't deserve empathy. So, by their own logic, maybe I've simply "run out" of my "finite" empathy and fucks to give about a racist sexist podcaster getting shot in the neck.

(Sep 18 2025, 9:44 AM)YesYourNigel Conservatives are used to saying all kinds of vile shit with no pushback and this feels unfair to them.

Yeah, I truly feel like they just never considered that maybe their grotesque rhetoric could possibly ever cause them serious physical harm, mainly because people who lean left/progressive are, I would say, generally non-violent and would prefer to resolve systemic issues diplomatically. Apparently making fun of, or not caring about, gun violence victims hits different when it's one of "their own," how shocking. The loud proud "fuck your feelings" crowd, suddenly no where to be found?

(Sep 18 2025, 9:44 AM)YesYourNigel The other side is liberals loudly celebrating that this piece of shit is dead and not caring about the horrible precedent set by how he died.

I am generally a nonviolent person and would prefer human society to function peacefully and diplomatically for the good of the people. Therefore, I think his murder is nothing to celebrate.

However, in regards to not caring, I think I'm there. I had a momentary bit of disturbance and shock seeing the news while it was still out that they hadn't confirmed Kirk was dead, and then another unsettling moment when he was confirmed dead, about the fact that we're at this point in modern United States society, where people will simply choose to murder prominent political speakers whose opinions they disagree with. But it was momentary, because... I guess I just cannot believe that out of so many decades of senseless violence and killings in the United states, the multiple mass slaughters of school children that have happened over the years, the past assassinations of political figures like Martin Luther King Jr., that this is the one I'm supposed to be gravely concerned about? I guess I just find it so confusing how we live in a country that thinks it should be more "upsetting" that a prominently racist and sexist man who made a career and millions of dollars off of promoting regressive right-wing ideology getting shot dead is somehow more disturbing or shocking than innocent school children or prominent pacifist civil rights leaders getting shot dead? Like, we're supposed to care more because somebody who has consistently repulsive hateful takes was finally the victim of a violent mentally ill person with a gun in the United States? It just seems pretty par for the course for me. Another senseless gun violence victim in the United States. C'est la vie, no?

Kozlik's regular member account. 🍀🐐
Clover
Kozlik's regular account 🍀🐐
Sep 18 2025, 4:45 PM #2

(Sep 18 2025, 9:44 AM)YesYourNigel The "moderates" and stealth-conservative women on Vexxed trying to get other women to play the role of unpaid wailers for this piece of shit under the guise of "🥺empathy🥺" and "he was a human being" and "think of his poor family", while downplaying or straight up ignoring this guy's violent white male supremacist rhetoric, including the statement that innocent people, children even, getting shot is a fair price to pay for getting to keep Americans' precious guns.

This is especially rich, because I remember a discussion on Ovarit where I was attempting to get fellow users to possibly have some empathy for homeless people or something of the sort, only to be refuted with claims that empathy is finite (tf? No it's not) and that they've essentially run out of fucks to give and that those people don't deserve empathy. So, by their own logic, maybe I've simply "run out" of my "finite" empathy and fucks to give about a racist sexist podcaster getting shot in the neck.

(Sep 18 2025, 9:44 AM)YesYourNigel Conservatives are used to saying all kinds of vile shit with no pushback and this feels unfair to them.

Yeah, I truly feel like they just never considered that maybe their grotesque rhetoric could possibly ever cause them serious physical harm, mainly because people who lean left/progressive are, I would say, generally non-violent and would prefer to resolve systemic issues diplomatically. Apparently making fun of, or not caring about, gun violence victims hits different when it's one of "their own," how shocking. The loud proud "fuck your feelings" crowd, suddenly no where to be found?

(Sep 18 2025, 9:44 AM)YesYourNigel The other side is liberals loudly celebrating that this piece of shit is dead and not caring about the horrible precedent set by how he died.

I am generally a nonviolent person and would prefer human society to function peacefully and diplomatically for the good of the people. Therefore, I think his murder is nothing to celebrate.

However, in regards to not caring, I think I'm there. I had a momentary bit of disturbance and shock seeing the news while it was still out that they hadn't confirmed Kirk was dead, and then another unsettling moment when he was confirmed dead, about the fact that we're at this point in modern United States society, where people will simply choose to murder prominent political speakers whose opinions they disagree with. But it was momentary, because... I guess I just cannot believe that out of so many decades of senseless violence and killings in the United states, the multiple mass slaughters of school children that have happened over the years, the past assassinations of political figures like Martin Luther King Jr., that this is the one I'm supposed to be gravely concerned about? I guess I just find it so confusing how we live in a country that thinks it should be more "upsetting" that a prominently racist and sexist man who made a career and millions of dollars off of promoting regressive right-wing ideology getting shot dead is somehow more disturbing or shocking than innocent school children or prominent pacifist civil rights leaders getting shot dead? Like, we're supposed to care more because somebody who has consistently repulsive hateful takes was finally the victim of a violent mentally ill person with a gun in the United States? It just seems pretty par for the course for me. Another senseless gun violence victim in the United States. C'est la vie, no?


Kozlik's regular member account. 🍀🐐

Impress Polly
The kind they warned you about.
82
Sep 21 2025, 4:12 AM
#3
Charlie Kook getting shot to me was like Trump getting shot last year. I experienced some basic human empathy too when I was subjected to the video and saw the blood spraying. Then I remembered who he was and what he stood for; that he dedicated his entire adult life to taking away women's rights, silencing survivors of sexual violence, helping Trump get elected dictator, and just generally being a fascist asswipe who wouldn't give two flying fucks if one of his minions had shot me. A man without empathy. (No seriously, he literally once proclaimed that, and I'm quoting verbatim, "I think empathy is a made-up, New Age term that does a lot of damage.") From there, my overriding emotional reaction was fear, like "oh shit, what's going to happen to people like me and my wife now that THIS has gone down??" And I was right to worry because the opportunistic fascists on the right (and I will call them fascists all day because they are) sure have milked this for all it's worth. Shamelessly. As in Kirk has been given his own national holiday (falling on his birthday) and a funeral on par with a state one in scale and attended by the president, like he contributed anything of value to the life of this country. There are even calls I've seen emanating from right wing media for hate speech legislation to ban criticism of men, Christians, white people, Israel, and above all Trump and the MAGA cult as a form of terrorism, and to especially protect those who exist at the intersections of these disadvantaged groups. All this without any recognition of glaringly obvious ironies and hypocrisies involved, like that he was shot while denouncing gun control and subsequently lionized as this free speech champion whose legacy would be best be honored by silencing of all opposing speech.

Yeah sorry, but Jimmy Kimmel's job was worth a million Charlie Kirks to me and that's not saying too much because I pretty much never watch his program. Pay attention to the silencing of liberal humor though, sisters. Take notice of who is allowed to joke and to laugh and who isn't because one is allowed to say more in jest than they are in seriousness. Violations of political correctness are often part of what makes humor work. Female host comedians were all cancelled years ago. Now impoliteness is socially banned for even male liberals while conservatives are facing no penalty for death threats and doxxing, Trump no impeachment articles for explicit violations of the First Amendment. Who can say whatever they want to and who has to be strictly respectful and dignified to continue on in their job? Welcome to the age of right wing wokeness. One only hopes that its precepts don't get codified into law. After all, many countries have laws banning "hate speech" and "disinformation" and you will find that feminists are usually the first to be purged with them.
Edited Sep 21 2025, 5:08 AM by Impress Polly.
Impress Polly
The kind they warned you about.
Sep 21 2025, 4:12 AM #3

Charlie Kook getting shot to me was like Trump getting shot last year. I experienced some basic human empathy too when I was subjected to the video and saw the blood spraying. Then I remembered who he was and what he stood for; that he dedicated his entire adult life to taking away women's rights, silencing survivors of sexual violence, helping Trump get elected dictator, and just generally being a fascist asswipe who wouldn't give two flying fucks if one of his minions had shot me. A man without empathy. (No seriously, he literally once proclaimed that, and I'm quoting verbatim, "I think empathy is a made-up, New Age term that does a lot of damage.") From there, my overriding emotional reaction was fear, like "oh shit, what's going to happen to people like me and my wife now that THIS has gone down??" And I was right to worry because the opportunistic fascists on the right (and I will call them fascists all day because they are) sure have milked this for all it's worth. Shamelessly. As in Kirk has been given his own national holiday (falling on his birthday) and a funeral on par with a state one in scale and attended by the president, like he contributed anything of value to the life of this country. There are even calls I've seen emanating from right wing media for hate speech legislation to ban criticism of men, Christians, white people, Israel, and above all Trump and the MAGA cult as a form of terrorism, and to especially protect those who exist at the intersections of these disadvantaged groups. All this without any recognition of glaringly obvious ironies and hypocrisies involved, like that he was shot while denouncing gun control and subsequently lionized as this free speech champion whose legacy would be best be honored by silencing of all opposing speech.

Yeah sorry, but Jimmy Kimmel's job was worth a million Charlie Kirks to me and that's not saying too much because I pretty much never watch his program. Pay attention to the silencing of liberal humor though, sisters. Take notice of who is allowed to joke and to laugh and who isn't because one is allowed to say more in jest than they are in seriousness. Violations of political correctness are often part of what makes humor work. Female host comedians were all cancelled years ago. Now impoliteness is socially banned for even male liberals while conservatives are facing no penalty for death threats and doxxing, Trump no impeachment articles for explicit violations of the First Amendment. Who can say whatever they want to and who has to be strictly respectful and dignified to continue on in their job? Welcome to the age of right wing wokeness. One only hopes that its precepts don't get codified into law. After all, many countries have laws banning "hate speech" and "disinformation" and you will find that feminists are usually the first to be purged with them.

Sep 27 2025, 9:52 PM
#4
To be clear, I really don't want any empathy for this guy who got killed, it's more that I don't want any glorification of the guy who killed him. My biggest concern is how quickly all the Liberals go into full idolisation mode over some equally batshit dynsfunctional angry guy who happens to turn on a conservative man out of some personal grievance (like the guy who killed that medical insurance CEO) as opposed to any humanist reasons. Men who go and kill other men like this are not good people. I cannot possibly imagine a guy like this killing a conservative talking head for being misogynistic, he's probably an incel himself - he had a bunch of terminally online memes written on his bullets after all. There must've been a trans angle where this Mormon-raised guy who thought a TIM was his way out of being gay felt personally attacked by all the "TIMs are men" rhetoric + the religious angle to it that a lot of the 4chan crowd mocks and feels superior to.

I also want awareness of what this means for our political situation, though it's hard to not have it turn into one-sided concerns over optics. Like, conservative men and white male supremacists do all kinds of violent shit and straight up terrorism, and everyone kind of just shrugs and treats it like some teen tantrum, but someone kills their influencer and now all of a sudden we have a massive human rights crisis? Conservatives straight up stormed the White House. They straight up murdered a Democratic politician. Hell, women, gay people, gender nonconforming people, people who aren't white have suffered political violence on the hands of these turds, and some conservative influencer is where we draw the line? The discrepancy in violence is massive, and STILL conservatives claim we have a pandemic of liberal terrorism or that both sides are just as bad. Trying to get their respect by proving how harmless liberals are does not work.

It's the same dynamic between men and women - the difference in violence and dehumanisation is so extreme and so obvious just from using your eyes. Any calls for women to turn the other cheek to show they're not "one of those crazy feminazis" and promises that men will respect women once women stop being so evil and matriarchal go down the drain because these things are already the case and it doesn't even put a dent in male delusions and persecution complexes. Saudi Arabian men are the most convinced in the world that women are treated fairly and equally. It doesn't end. No amount of groveling and appeasement convinces them you're a human being, because they're already absolutely delusional about reality.

Nevertheless, the fact is that you can't out-psycho conservatives, and celebrating that as a way of taking them out just does not sit well with me. It's not about any empathy for this guy, it's about not glorifying violent men who'll try to cash in their personality disorders for social clout. And additionally, given how easily liberal men turn savage and sadistically violent against "bad women" (like anti-trans feminists, anti-prositution feminists, any feminists who go "too far", even conservative women), it makes sense to be concerned with the progressive side glorifying violence as a means of shutting up anyone on the opposing side.

And, again, it just doesn't work, like...it's just stupid to celebrate it? It's like when people were celebrating Trump almost getting assassinated. Do you genuinely think turning Trump into a martyr is going to end conservativism just because he himself is no longer in the picture? Do you truly think this whole fucked up movement starts and ends with just one person? It's just so naive, like these people are cartoon villains who just need to be punched by a noble hero (who is ofc never just as messed up as the villain) and the story will get a happy ending, huzzah.
Edited Sep 27 2025, 11:06 PM by YesYourNigel.
YesYourNigel
Sep 27 2025, 9:52 PM #4

To be clear, I really don't want any empathy for this guy who got killed, it's more that I don't want any glorification of the guy who killed him. My biggest concern is how quickly all the Liberals go into full idolisation mode over some equally batshit dynsfunctional angry guy who happens to turn on a conservative man out of some personal grievance (like the guy who killed that medical insurance CEO) as opposed to any humanist reasons. Men who go and kill other men like this are not good people. I cannot possibly imagine a guy like this killing a conservative talking head for being misogynistic, he's probably an incel himself - he had a bunch of terminally online memes written on his bullets after all. There must've been a trans angle where this Mormon-raised guy who thought a TIM was his way out of being gay felt personally attacked by all the "TIMs are men" rhetoric + the religious angle to it that a lot of the 4chan crowd mocks and feels superior to.

I also want awareness of what this means for our political situation, though it's hard to not have it turn into one-sided concerns over optics. Like, conservative men and white male supremacists do all kinds of violent shit and straight up terrorism, and everyone kind of just shrugs and treats it like some teen tantrum, but someone kills their influencer and now all of a sudden we have a massive human rights crisis? Conservatives straight up stormed the White House. They straight up murdered a Democratic politician. Hell, women, gay people, gender nonconforming people, people who aren't white have suffered political violence on the hands of these turds, and some conservative influencer is where we draw the line? The discrepancy in violence is massive, and STILL conservatives claim we have a pandemic of liberal terrorism or that both sides are just as bad. Trying to get their respect by proving how harmless liberals are does not work.

It's the same dynamic between men and women - the difference in violence and dehumanisation is so extreme and so obvious just from using your eyes. Any calls for women to turn the other cheek to show they're not "one of those crazy feminazis" and promises that men will respect women once women stop being so evil and matriarchal go down the drain because these things are already the case and it doesn't even put a dent in male delusions and persecution complexes. Saudi Arabian men are the most convinced in the world that women are treated fairly and equally. It doesn't end. No amount of groveling and appeasement convinces them you're a human being, because they're already absolutely delusional about reality.

Nevertheless, the fact is that you can't out-psycho conservatives, and celebrating that as a way of taking them out just does not sit well with me. It's not about any empathy for this guy, it's about not glorifying violent men who'll try to cash in their personality disorders for social clout. And additionally, given how easily liberal men turn savage and sadistically violent against "bad women" (like anti-trans feminists, anti-prositution feminists, any feminists who go "too far", even conservative women), it makes sense to be concerned with the progressive side glorifying violence as a means of shutting up anyone on the opposing side.

And, again, it just doesn't work, like...it's just stupid to celebrate it? It's like when people were celebrating Trump almost getting assassinated. Do you genuinely think turning Trump into a martyr is going to end conservativism just because he himself is no longer in the picture? Do you truly think this whole fucked up movement starts and ends with just one person? It's just so naive, like these people are cartoon villains who just need to be punched by a noble hero (who is ofc never just as messed up as the villain) and the story will get a happy ending, huzzah.

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