What South Korea’s ‘Queen of 4B’ Wants Americans to Know
What South Korea’s ‘Queen of 4B’ Wants Americans to Know
Not mentioned in the article but it's been on my mind: It seems like 4B is a little controversial in the West because of the "acquired lesbianism"/polilez aspect and what that means for lesbians who have spent their lives trying to get people to understand that lesbian isn't something you can identify into or out of - you just are, you're born that way.
I don't know if the answer is for 4B and other female separatism to stop using the word "lesbian" at all, and simply call it "partnering with women" or "loving women" and allow "lesbian" to stand as a term for those who have always been attracted to women. Or is the bigger issue that polilez shouldn't exist at all and separatist women shouldn't look for other women?
https://www.thecut.com/article/4b-american-women-trump-advice.html
Not mentioned in the article but it's been on my mind: It seems like 4B is a little controversial in the West because of the "acquired lesbianism"/polilez aspect and what that means for lesbians who have spent their lives trying to get people to understand that lesbian isn't something you can identify into or out of - you just are, you're born that way.
I don't know if the answer is for 4B and other female separatism to stop using the word "lesbian" at all, and simply call it "partnering with women" or "loving women" and allow "lesbian" to stand as a term for those who have always been attracted to women. Or is the bigger issue that polilez shouldn't exist at all and separatist women shouldn't look for other women?
“I am not free while any woman is unfree, even when her shackles are very different from my own.” – Audre Lorde
I get how they arrived at the term "political lesbianism," but I don't like the words they chose. Especially because of gender crap, which is a separate but related issue, I think it's important for the definition of "lesbian" to be a woman who's exclusively attracted to other women. Any bending of that definition creates room to pressure lesbian women into sex with men.
I don't want to call it "biphobia" because that's so dramatic, but I do think that women who are attracted to men and also willing to partner with women should just call themselves bisexual, there's no need to go stealing the word "lesbian." Being bi, I have always made sense of things this way. If I partner with a woman, I'm still bisexual, and if I partner with a man, I'm still bisexual. 🤣 But to be fair, I think societal discourse at large has always been kinda like this (as in you're either straight or gay, no inbetween), so it makes sense that people get tripped up by it.
In terms of the actual practice, I have no objections to it whatsoever. The more women who cut men out of their lives, the better, probably. As long as they are straight-up with other wlw and don't call themselves "lesbians," I don't see the problem with it.
(Disclaimer, bisexual here, and my opinion's just my own. 😂)
I get how they arrived at the term "political lesbianism," but I don't like the words they chose. Especially because of gender crap, which is a separate but related issue, I think it's important for the definition of "lesbian" to be a woman who's exclusively attracted to other women. Any bending of that definition creates room to pressure lesbian women into sex with men.
I don't want to call it "biphobia" because that's so dramatic, but I do think that women who are attracted to men and also willing to partner with women should just call themselves bisexual, there's no need to go stealing the word "lesbian." Being bi, I have always made sense of things this way. If I partner with a woman, I'm still bisexual, and if I partner with a man, I'm still bisexual. 🤣 But to be fair, I think societal discourse at large has always been kinda like this (as in you're either straight or gay, no inbetween), so it makes sense that people get tripped up by it.
In terms of the actual practice, I have no objections to it whatsoever. The more women who cut men out of their lives, the better, probably. As long as they are straight-up with other wlw and don't call themselves "lesbians," I don't see the problem with it.
I am all for women choosing to practice female separatism, living only with other women, etc. To be honest, I don't even see an issue with two women who aren't same-sex attracted marrying each other, due to the fact marriages out of convenience/necessity (immigration, health insurance coverage, etc.) have been a thing between men and women for decades. (Though I would much rather dismantle the institution of marriage and all of the bullshit that goes along with it that causes situations where a person needs to be married to another in order to get things like housing or health care...)
Anyway, this interview is awesome! Thanks for sharing.
I agree with komorebi (I'm straight tho lol). "Political lesbianism" as a term seems "wrong" to me. Lesbians are women who love and are sexually attracted solely to women. I don't think love and sexuality should be used as political statements in such a manner. It seems to me like "political lesbianism"/"polilez" are term from the second-wave, and have largely been replaced with "female separatism"/"female separatist", which seems more fitting.
I am all for women choosing to practice female separatism, living only with other women, etc. To be honest, I don't even see an issue with two women who aren't same-sex attracted marrying each other, due to the fact marriages out of convenience/necessity (immigration, health insurance coverage, etc.) have been a thing between men and women for decades. (Though I would much rather dismantle the institution of marriage and all of the bullshit that goes along with it that causes situations where a person needs to be married to another in order to get things like housing or health care...)
Anyway, this interview is awesome! Thanks for sharing.
I don’t think we need to be using terms like “political lesbianism” to describe 4B and I’m kinda surprised by the association, honestly. I don’t think it’s even an accurate descriptor because 4B isn’t really about encouraging women to have politically motivated sexual relationships with other women, more than it is about encouraging women not to have sexual relationships with men for political reasons. What women choose to do in place of that is up to them.
You don’t need to be a lesbian to make another woman (or women) your life partner(s). Relationships don’t have to be sexual for you to choose to prioritize them as the most important relationships in your life. I think people don’t realize this (because society doesn’t let them) and so they assume that if women aren’t living with men sexually, the only other option is to live with women sexually. This is very much not true. We need to make more space for platonic life partnerships with close friends and not assume that every important relationship must be sexual/marital.
I think women who want to practice separatism should absolutely seek out each other. Support each other, live their lives together. But there’s no need for them to call themselves lesbians. That word already has a definition and it does not apply to them.
I also agree with Clover that we need to dismantle the institution of marriage. It is not and has never worked for women and has no place in a society in which women are liberated.
Edited to add disclaimer: I, too, am straight and so am not an authority on this issue, lol. All opinions my own.
periwinkle
Dec 20 2024, 12:17 AM #4This is a great interview! This woman seems so cool!
I don’t think we need to be using terms like “political lesbianism” to describe 4B and I’m kinda surprised by the association, honestly. I don’t think it’s even an accurate descriptor because 4B isn’t really about encouraging women to have politically motivated sexual relationships with other women, more than it is about encouraging women not to have sexual relationships with men for political reasons. What women choose to do in place of that is up to them.
You don’t need to be a lesbian to make another woman (or women) your life partner(s). Relationships don’t have to be sexual for you to choose to prioritize them as the most important relationships in your life. I think people don’t realize this (because society doesn’t let them) and so they assume that if women aren’t living with men sexually, the only other option is to live with women sexually. This is very much not true. We need to make more space for platonic life partnerships with close friends and not assume that every important relationship must be sexual/marital.
I think women who want to practice separatism should absolutely seek out each other. Support each other, live their lives together. But there’s no need for them to call themselves lesbians. That word already has a definition and it does not apply to them.
I also agree with Clover that we need to dismantle the institution of marriage. It is not and has never worked for women and has no place in a society in which women are liberated.
Edited to add disclaimer: I, too, am straight and so am not an authority on this issue, lol. All opinions my own.
I'm also straight, which hopefully explains at least some of my ignorance on these subjects. I'm also glad to see that others interpret 4B the way I did, which is that it isn't about encouraging sexual/romantic relationships with women, it's about DIScouraging sexual/romantic relationships with men. (Which i'm in favor of for those who can make it stick, women just seem to be better off in general without men)
“I am not free while any woman is unfree, even when her shackles are very different from my own.” – Audre Lorde
(Dec 20 2024, 12:17 AM)periwinkle You don’t need to be a lesbian to make another woman (or women) your life partner(s). Relationships don’t have to be sexual for you to choose to prioritize them as the most important relationships in your life. I think people don’t realize this (because society doesn’t let them) and so they assume that if women aren’t living with men sexually, the only other option is to live with women sexually. This is very much not true. We need to make more space for platonic life partnerships with close friends and not assume that every important relationship must be sexual/marital.
You raise an excellent point, and I'm sorry I didn't mention it myself (because I was busy complaining about bi erasure LMAO)—women can and should be platonic life partners without feeling pressured to have a sexual relationship or use other "societally acceptable" labels.
(Dec 20 2024, 12:17 AM)periwinkle You don’t need to be a lesbian to make another woman (or women) your life partner(s). Relationships don’t have to be sexual for you to choose to prioritize them as the most important relationships in your life. I think people don’t realize this (because society doesn’t let them) and so they assume that if women aren’t living with men sexually, the only other option is to live with women sexually. This is very much not true. We need to make more space for platonic life partnerships with close friends and not assume that every important relationship must be sexual/marital.
You raise an excellent point, and I'm sorry I didn't mention it myself (because I was busy complaining about bi erasure LMAO)—women can and should be platonic life partners without feeling pressured to have a sexual relationship or use other "societally acceptable" labels.
I think society should be more accepting of platonic life partners in general. Same sex, mixed sex, whatever. If two people have a bond and want to be each other's Main Person, they shouldn't feel pressured to be sexual or romantic about it. Life partnerships would probably last longer if strong platonic bonds were encouraged instead of pushing the constant need for romantic and sexual attraction.
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