Discussion Netflix's Kaos (2024) and Caeneus
Discussion Netflix's Kaos (2024) and Caeneus
Mar 5 2025, 12:00 AM
Anyway. This post is going to contain spoilers for Kaos so if you're interested in watching that show and don't want spoilers, pls leave now cuz I'm not spoiler marking the whole post.
So, I am familiar with the basics of Greek mythology. The "big names" like Zeus, Hera, Hercules, and so on. I was unfamiliar with the story of Caeneus.
So when watching the show, I thought he was just some normal human guy who got sent to the underworld. I thought he was a very "soft/gentle looking" man. Early on in one of the episodes, he talked about his family being part of the Amazons, which make boys leave the group at eleven. But Caeneus mentions to one of the main characters that he left at like 15 or so. And she asked why and he gave an answer about "finding out later" or something and I was like "are they seriously gonna do a trans thing?" And yep, they did a trans thing (which was more certain later on than just that "hinty" line). I figured that small line of dialogue might have been the end of that, but no, in episode 6, there is a flashback to Caeneus when he was younger and living in the compound. And the story goes that his mother "realized who 'he' is" and that "he" needed to leave (since it was a "female only compound" and since "he" has a magical boysoul, "he" could not be there), and that there is a woman in Crete that could "help 'him'" (aka trans him...). It felt like some kind of cheesy "my family accepts me for who I am" TIP fanfiction in the middle of this cool Greek mythology based show. (As a side note, I am amused to find a Reddit thread that had a few people confused about the whole trans storyline.)
Then my partner and I argued about whether or not the actor who played Caeneus is a TIF or a man. My partner was extremely adamant the actor was a man lol. I eventually was like "yeah, I guess he looks quite like a man, a very 'soft' man, but yeah." I thought his voice sounded like a man's. In one episode, he was shirtless for some scenes and I didn't see any mastectomy scars so I was like "oh I guess he is a man?" (No, I guess the actress just got a really high quality mastectomy? Ngl the strange hair growth pattern around the nipples and the large nipples themselves did give me a bit of a pause, but then again, I don't really seek out pictures of bare men's chests, so I figured I just haven't seen enough male chests lol.) So uh, yeah, I was fooled and my partner was definitely fooled. Idk why I want to bring this up, but I guess because on Ovarit they constantly like to say "we can always tell!" and like, I just don't think that's true. They claim TIFs have "froggy voices," I didn't think this TIF had one... There were very few things about Caeneus' actress that made me think they were a TIF. I think she passes as a man quite well. (Though a fair amount of TIFs do, by virtue of it being easier to have women look like men than men look like women.)
Why bring this up? Well, because this show is all about the Greek gods and their stories. A modern retelling of their stories. The Gods and Goddesses are sociopathic violent narcissists, just like in the myths. They are sadistic and cruel and bizarre. It's what makes the show "charming" (as in, unique) and engaging. And while I thought the whole "trans" story was pretty stupid to add in just from my views on transgenderism, when I looked up the actual mythology of Caeneus, I thought it was even more stupid that they chose to contort the original myth into a transgender story.
Side note: this is how Wikipedia writes about the myth of Caeneus:
Wikipedia on Caeneus In Greek mythology, Caeneus [...] was a Lapith hero, ruler of Thessaly, and the father of the Argonaut Coronus. Caeneus was born a girl, Caenis [...], the daughter of Elatus, but after Poseidon had sex with Caenis, she was transformed by Poseidon into an invulnerable man.
I am aware Wikipedia is all-in on the gender woowoo train, so I guess they "positively trans-washed" the myth of Caeneus to remove the fact this Greek hero was raped and that was why she wanted to become a man.
A.S. Kline's Metamorphosis: Bk XII:146-209 Nestor tells the story of Caeneus-Caenis âElatusâs daughter, Caenis, loveliest of the virgins of Thessaly, was famous for her beauty, a girl longed for in vain, the object of many suitors throughout the neighbouring cities and your own (since she was one of your people, Achilles). Perhaps Peleus also would have tried to wed her, but he had already taken your mother in marriage, or she was promised to your father. Caenis would not agree to any marriage, but (so rumour has it) she was walking along a lonely beach, and the god took her by force. When Neptune had enjoyed his new love he said: âMake your wish, without fear of refusal. Ask for what you most want!â (The same rumour mentioned this.)https://ovid.lib.virginia.edu/trans/Metamorph12.htm#486225989
ââThis injury evokes the great desire never to be able to suffer any such again. Grant I might not be a woman: you will have given me everything,â Caenis said. She spoke the last words in a deeper tone, that might have been the sound of a manâs voice. So it was: the god of the deep ocean had already accepted her wish, and had granted, over and above it, that as a man Caeneus would be protected from all wounds, and never fall to the sword. Caeneus, the Atracides, left, happy with his gifts, and spent his time in manly pastimes, roaming the Thessalian fields.
Patterns of Rape in Ovidâs Metamorphoses by Nikki Bloch Ovidâs seemingly modern understanding of gender and sexuality is perhaps best appreciated in the myth of Caeneus, the mythical hero who was once the beautiful woman Caenis. Raped by Neptune, Caenis is granted the wish to never again be able to suffer in this way, to no longer be a woman (12.202).
Even in the "So confused..." Reddit thread about Caeneus in r/KaosNetflix, someone wrote:
Snoo_58387 I wish they had kept the the original myth about Caeneus. That would provide more complexity to the character and stronger reason to take part of the plan.
For the ones who don't know the myth, which can be found in Ovidius' Metamorphoses, Caeneus was born as a girl, Caenis, who was one day raped by Poseidon. After the assault, the god granted her a wish and Caenis asked to be turned into a man, not to fall victim of rape anymore.
This show pulls no punches with the gods sadistically killing and torturing humans. They also have Hera make Zeus kill his own newly-born demigod baby. And that was more like a footnote than any main plot point. And yet, instead of exploring the violent misogyny of the Gods and what it means to live as a woman in terms of sexual violence and rape culture, through the original myth of Caeneus that could have been told in a modern light, the show writers decided to completely turn this myth into an "uwu twans feelgood" storyline. Sad. Of course, why would they care about shining a light on misogyny and rape culture? That's sooooo passé. I mean, everybody knows that rape of women and misogyny were solved in the modern day when, like the myth of Caeneus, we realized we could "turn women into men!" Praise transgenderism!
I think there are a few things that are even more sad, regarding the actress who plays Caeneus, Misia Butler.
For one, Misia had an interview where she talked about playing Caeneus on Kaos and actually said that learning about Caeneus from a teacher is what encouraged her to transition:
Quote:When asked how he relates to Caeneus' story, Butler shared that the role "spoke to [his] ability to be an empowered trans man:"Â https://thedirect.com/article/kaos-caeneus-trans-netflix-misia-butler-exclusive
Quote:"I remember when I was a kid learning about it in school, and I had a specific teacher who, I think, knew what she was doing. She gave me this translation of this ancient text, and it was this character that was in that text being told that he wasn't good enough because he was born female and he shouldn't be fighting with the men, and then he defeats them all really easily. And I just felt really empowered by that as a story because it spoke to my ability to be an empowered trans man, basically."
Quote:Letâs talk about KAOS. What were your initial thoughts when the series was first mentioned to you?https://thequeerreview.com/2024/08/27/interview-misia-butler-kaos-netflix/
âIn 2018, when they first announced that Charlie Covell was going to be adapting Greek myths into a series on Netflix, pretty much every single one of my friends sent me the link to the news story. They were like, âYou have to do this!â And I was like, âI mean, imagine if they wrote a part for me. How crazy would that be?!â Then in 2020 I received the audition sides and discovered that it was a Greek myth that I have been obsessed with since I was a kid. They described the role as a lead and I was like, âOh, no, Iâm going to be way too invested in this. This is so scary!â Then the whole process took a lot longer, but at the beginning of 2022 I finally got the call saying that Iâd got the role and I cried. It was insane! Again, fate feels like a really big part of this whole process. Iâm still waiting for someone to tell me that itâs all a joke and to pull the rug from underneath me!â
[...]
What was it like to inhabit your character Caeneus?
âIt felt so natural. I feel so blessed, not only to have the context of this show and all the amazing people who are involved, but to have a character that really felt like me. It felt like a big privilege. Iâve done bits and pieces before, but this definitely felt like the mammoth of work compared to what Iâve done before. That can be terrifying, but it felt like this character was someone I really understood and really empathized with and that was beautiful.â
I am wondering if the teacher provided Misia with a "trans-washed" version of the Caeneus story back in school, rather than one that points out the character was raped and that's why she wanted to become a man... I mean, no matter how one spins this, it's just all around depressing.
And then, while trying to figure out if the actor who played Caeneus was a TIF or not, I learned Misia Butler is 24 (born in 2001). And on June 28 2019, she posted on Instagram:
misiabutler, Instagram So I may have forgotten that yesterday was my 1 year post op anniversary so Iâm posting today2018-2001 = 17 years old.
Just weirds me out that teenage girls are getting their breasts removed and identifying with Greek myths about women who got raped and wished to be men to avoid being raped/women and mainsteam society is like "yasssssss quee-- I mean king!!". What a world.
Kozlik's regular member account. đđ
Netflix recommended this show that I was totally hooked on called Kaos (and of course, as soon as I finish it, I find out it's been fucking cancelled, fuk u Netflix). In the show's world, the Greek gods are real and it's the modern day. I thought it was a really cool premise.
Anyway. This post is going to contain spoilers for Kaos so if you're interested in watching that show and don't want spoilers, pls leave now cuz I'm not spoiler marking the whole post.
So, I am familiar with the basics of Greek mythology. The "big names" like Zeus, Hera, Hercules, and so on. I was unfamiliar with the story of Caeneus.
So when watching the show, I thought he was just some normal human guy who got sent to the underworld. I thought he was a very "soft/gentle looking" man. Early on in one of the episodes, he talked about his family being part of the Amazons, which make boys leave the group at eleven. But Caeneus mentions to one of the main characters that he left at like 15 or so. And she asked why and he gave an answer about "finding out later" or something and I was like "are they seriously gonna do a trans thing?" And yep, they did a trans thing (which was more certain later on than just that "hinty" line). I figured that small line of dialogue might have been the end of that, but no, in episode 6, there is a flashback to Caeneus when he was younger and living in the compound. And the story goes that his mother "realized who 'he' is" and that "he" needed to leave (since it was a "female only compound" and since "he" has a magical boysoul, "he" could not be there), and that there is a woman in Crete that could "help 'him'" (aka trans him...). It felt like some kind of cheesy "my family accepts me for who I am" TIP fanfiction in the middle of this cool Greek mythology based show. (As a side note, I am amused to find a Reddit thread that had a few people confused about the whole trans storyline.)
Then my partner and I argued about whether or not the actor who played Caeneus is a TIF or a man. My partner was extremely adamant the actor was a man lol. I eventually was like "yeah, I guess he looks quite like a man, a very 'soft' man, but yeah." I thought his voice sounded like a man's. In one episode, he was shirtless for some scenes and I didn't see any mastectomy scars so I was like "oh I guess he is a man?" (No, I guess the actress just got a really high quality mastectomy? Ngl the strange hair growth pattern around the nipples and the large nipples themselves did give me a bit of a pause, but then again, I don't really seek out pictures of bare men's chests, so I figured I just haven't seen enough male chests lol.) So uh, yeah, I was fooled and my partner was definitely fooled. Idk why I want to bring this up, but I guess because on Ovarit they constantly like to say "we can always tell!" and like, I just don't think that's true. They claim TIFs have "froggy voices," I didn't think this TIF had one... There were very few things about Caeneus' actress that made me think they were a TIF. I think she passes as a man quite well. (Though a fair amount of TIFs do, by virtue of it being easier to have women look like men than men look like women.)
Why bring this up? Well, because this show is all about the Greek gods and their stories. A modern retelling of their stories. The Gods and Goddesses are sociopathic violent narcissists, just like in the myths. They are sadistic and cruel and bizarre. It's what makes the show "charming" (as in, unique) and engaging. And while I thought the whole "trans" story was pretty stupid to add in just from my views on transgenderism, when I looked up the actual mythology of Caeneus, I thought it was even more stupid that they chose to contort the original myth into a transgender story.
Side note: this is how Wikipedia writes about the myth of Caeneus:
Wikipedia on Caeneus In Greek mythology, Caeneus [...] was a Lapith hero, ruler of Thessaly, and the father of the Argonaut Coronus. Caeneus was born a girl, Caenis [...], the daughter of Elatus, but after Poseidon had sex with Caenis, she was transformed by Poseidon into an invulnerable man.
I am aware Wikipedia is all-in on the gender woowoo train, so I guess they "positively trans-washed" the myth of Caeneus to remove the fact this Greek hero was raped and that was why she wanted to become a man.
A.S. Kline's Metamorphosis: Bk XII:146-209 Nestor tells the story of Caeneus-Caenis âElatusâs daughter, Caenis, loveliest of the virgins of Thessaly, was famous for her beauty, a girl longed for in vain, the object of many suitors throughout the neighbouring cities and your own (since she was one of your people, Achilles). Perhaps Peleus also would have tried to wed her, but he had already taken your mother in marriage, or she was promised to your father. Caenis would not agree to any marriage, but (so rumour has it) she was walking along a lonely beach, and the god took her by force. When Neptune had enjoyed his new love he said: âMake your wish, without fear of refusal. Ask for what you most want!â (The same rumour mentioned this.)https://ovid.lib.virginia.edu/trans/Metamorph12.htm#486225989
ââThis injury evokes the great desire never to be able to suffer any such again. Grant I might not be a woman: you will have given me everything,â Caenis said. She spoke the last words in a deeper tone, that might have been the sound of a manâs voice. So it was: the god of the deep ocean had already accepted her wish, and had granted, over and above it, that as a man Caeneus would be protected from all wounds, and never fall to the sword. Caeneus, the Atracides, left, happy with his gifts, and spent his time in manly pastimes, roaming the Thessalian fields.
Patterns of Rape in Ovidâs Metamorphoses by Nikki Bloch Ovidâs seemingly modern understanding of gender and sexuality is perhaps best appreciated in the myth of Caeneus, the mythical hero who was once the beautiful woman Caenis. Raped by Neptune, Caenis is granted the wish to never again be able to suffer in this way, to no longer be a woman (12.202).
Even in the "So confused..." Reddit thread about Caeneus in r/KaosNetflix, someone wrote:
Snoo_58387 I wish they had kept the the original myth about Caeneus. That would provide more complexity to the character and stronger reason to take part of the plan.
For the ones who don't know the myth, which can be found in Ovidius' Metamorphoses, Caeneus was born as a girl, Caenis, who was one day raped by Poseidon. After the assault, the god granted her a wish and Caenis asked to be turned into a man, not to fall victim of rape anymore.
This show pulls no punches with the gods sadistically killing and torturing humans. They also have Hera make Zeus kill his own newly-born demigod baby. And that was more like a footnote than any main plot point. And yet, instead of exploring the violent misogyny of the Gods and what it means to live as a woman in terms of sexual violence and rape culture, through the original myth of Caeneus that could have been told in a modern light, the show writers decided to completely turn this myth into an "uwu twans feelgood" storyline. Sad. Of course, why would they care about shining a light on misogyny and rape culture? That's sooooo passé. I mean, everybody knows that rape of women and misogyny were solved in the modern day when, like the myth of Caeneus, we realized we could "turn women into men!" Praise transgenderism!
I think there are a few things that are even more sad, regarding the actress who plays Caeneus, Misia Butler.
For one, Misia had an interview where she talked about playing Caeneus on Kaos and actually said that learning about Caeneus from a teacher is what encouraged her to transition:
Quote:When asked how he relates to Caeneus' story, Butler shared that the role "spoke to [his] ability to be an empowered trans man:"Â https://thedirect.com/article/kaos-caeneus-trans-netflix-misia-butler-exclusive
Quote:"I remember when I was a kid learning about it in school, and I had a specific teacher who, I think, knew what she was doing. She gave me this translation of this ancient text, and it was this character that was in that text being told that he wasn't good enough because he was born female and he shouldn't be fighting with the men, and then he defeats them all really easily. And I just felt really empowered by that as a story because it spoke to my ability to be an empowered trans man, basically."
Quote:Letâs talk about KAOS. What were your initial thoughts when the series was first mentioned to you?https://thequeerreview.com/2024/08/27/interview-misia-butler-kaos-netflix/
âIn 2018, when they first announced that Charlie Covell was going to be adapting Greek myths into a series on Netflix, pretty much every single one of my friends sent me the link to the news story. They were like, âYou have to do this!â And I was like, âI mean, imagine if they wrote a part for me. How crazy would that be?!â Then in 2020 I received the audition sides and discovered that it was a Greek myth that I have been obsessed with since I was a kid. They described the role as a lead and I was like, âOh, no, Iâm going to be way too invested in this. This is so scary!â Then the whole process took a lot longer, but at the beginning of 2022 I finally got the call saying that Iâd got the role and I cried. It was insane! Again, fate feels like a really big part of this whole process. Iâm still waiting for someone to tell me that itâs all a joke and to pull the rug from underneath me!â
[...]
What was it like to inhabit your character Caeneus?
âIt felt so natural. I feel so blessed, not only to have the context of this show and all the amazing people who are involved, but to have a character that really felt like me. It felt like a big privilege. Iâve done bits and pieces before, but this definitely felt like the mammoth of work compared to what Iâve done before. That can be terrifying, but it felt like this character was someone I really understood and really empathized with and that was beautiful.â
I am wondering if the teacher provided Misia with a "trans-washed" version of the Caeneus story back in school, rather than one that points out the character was raped and that's why she wanted to become a man... I mean, no matter how one spins this, it's just all around depressing.
And then, while trying to figure out if the actor who played Caeneus was a TIF or not, I learned Misia Butler is 24 (born in 2001). And on June 28 2019, she posted on Instagram:
misiabutler, Instagram So I may have forgotten that yesterday was my 1 year post op anniversary so Iâm posting today2018-2001 = 17 years old.
Just weirds me out that teenage girls are getting their breasts removed and identifying with Greek myths about women who got raped and wished to be men to avoid being raped/women and mainsteam society is like "yasssssss quee-- I mean king!!". What a world.
Kozlik's regular member account. đđ
