clovenhooves The Personal Is Political General Article Forget 40 hours: The Dutch get their work done in just 32 hours a week—and women made it possible

Article Forget 40 hours: The Dutch get their work done in just 32 hours a week—and women made it possible

Article Forget 40 hours: The Dutch get their work done in just 32 hours a week—and women made it possible

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Elsacat
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Aug 29 2025, 7:36 AM
#1
https://fortune.com/2025/08/28/netherlands-four-day-workweek-europe-us-staffers-grindset-working-women-flexible-schedules-rto-wfh/

https://archive.ph/aSgmA

Quote:Over the next few decades, women’s workforce participation would shift the family earning structure and the country’s tax codes. The Netherlands went on to adopt a “one-and-a-half” earning model, where one parent worked full-time and the other part-time. The trending system was bolstered with tax breaks and benefits, and the working pattern became a standard among employees of all genders. Even working dads were taking advantage of the new structure, peeling out of work early to care for their young children. 
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Elsacat
Aug 29 2025, 7:36 AM #1

https://fortune.com/2025/08/28/netherlands-four-day-workweek-europe-us-staffers-grindset-working-women-flexible-schedules-rto-wfh/

https://archive.ph/aSgmA

Quote:Over the next few decades, women’s workforce participation would shift the family earning structure and the country’s tax codes. The Netherlands went on to adopt a “one-and-a-half” earning model, where one parent worked full-time and the other part-time. The trending system was bolstered with tax breaks and benefits, and the working pattern became a standard among employees of all genders. Even working dads were taking advantage of the new structure, peeling out of work early to care for their young children. 

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Aug 29 2025, 4:15 PM
#2
I'm so tired. I literally cannot do a 40-hour work week. It is unsustainable. We eat out way more often because we're too tired to cook meals at home, we're too tired to go to the grocery store. We're too tired to clean, it got to the point where I caved and paid for a monthly cleaning service for the bathrooms and kitchen, because the bathrooms were especially never getting gotten around to being cleaned and I felt even more depressed living in filth and it was starting to severely compound my stress levels and depression. I don't even know how people with kids do it, we're child-free and still absolutely tired from 8-hour work days, five days a week, of meaningless corpo drivel.

I think the entire capitalist system in the United States is set up in such a way to make it extremely difficult for people to get, or even want, a shortened work week. All those chores I can't do and pay for someone else to do because I feel like there's no time and I'm tired? All those restaurant and fast food meals we buy because there's I feel like no time and I'm tired? All those impulsive snacks I buy or easy frozen meals at the grocery store because there's no time to cook and I'm tired? All those are "cha-chings" to various industries that rule the United States. Fast food corporations want profits, restaurants want profits, junk food companies want profits, cleaning companies want profits, insurance and healthcare companies want profits and they're happy to get that from the poor health we experience from being overworked with a poor diets and lack of exercise. We have massive corporations hell-bent on keeping us tired, sick, and miserable so we keep buying their products and services. Fucking rat race.

That's not to say eating healthy and having a clean house is impossible in a 40-hour work week, but it makes it more difficult. And what I noticed is that if I want to do those things, like be able to cook meals and clean my house, I need to sacrifice time for other things. So, this usually means pushing aside hobbies and leisure, but also pushing aside abilities to focus on political activism. The only reason I can write this post right now is cuz I'm basically playing hooky on a Friday while I'm working from home...

So now you have an overstressed, overworked, and unhealthy due to poor diet and lack of exercise populace. They do not have socialized healthcare, so any ailments as a result of their poor diets and exercises and stress are their own responsibility. Their work is the thing that, maybe if they're "lucky", grants them some shitty form of healthcare, which still requires a bunch of money up front in deductibles and co-pays to even use. And these people are supposed to somehow be brave enough to ask for a reduced hours work week? Tie that in with the fact that the federal minimum wage has not increased since 2009—often I hear opponents of a reduced work week claim that wages won't rise (why would they, given our country's track record of not giving a shit how unsustainable our minimum wages are to have a decent life), so everyone who has an hourly wage gets a pay cut essentially. A potential pay cut during a time where rent is increasingly unaffordable, groceries are increasingly unaffordable. People look at the immediate outcomes and say "hell no."

I hate it so much. I rant about this all the time to my partner. There's so much more I could rant about. If we had a 32-hour work week, it would be much better. An extra date to clean, buy groceries, do chores, etc. All the shit that gets crammed into the evenings on the work week, or crammed into the two-day weekend, which barely feels like a break anymore. Sometimes my partner and I take a Friday or a Monday off, we try to do that once a month, and it just get filled up with overdue chores and tasks, it's only like a momentary pressure relief. I keep thinking about how if it was the norm to have an extra day off per week, how much less pressure would be building up over time, maybe life would feel sustainable again.

I really want to see a serious push for a 32-hour work week in the United States. I don't know how, but dear god please give us our fucking lives back. Honestly, I'm so bitter I don't think a 32-hour work week is good enough. I want to see 6 hours a day, 4 days a week—I want to see a 24-hour work week. Fuck this corpo shit. All this news about exponentially increased productivity for decades and somehow we're still on a fucking 40-hour work week barely starting the fight, if we even are, to get maaaaaybe one day shaved off?

Also, while I'm here I'm so sick of the goddamn corporate bootlickers who, every time when there is a discussion about a 4-day work week, come in raving about their goddamn 10-hour work days 4 days a week. Fuck right off, please. I don't want to sit in a fucking cube for 10 goddamn hours just to get one day back. Absolutely fucking bonkers. Shuffling around a pile of shit into a different shape still makes it a pile of shit. FUCK THE 40-HOUR WORK WEEK.
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Aug 29 2025, 4:15 PM #2

I'm so tired. I literally cannot do a 40-hour work week. It is unsustainable. We eat out way more often because we're too tired to cook meals at home, we're too tired to go to the grocery store. We're too tired to clean, it got to the point where I caved and paid for a monthly cleaning service for the bathrooms and kitchen, because the bathrooms were especially never getting gotten around to being cleaned and I felt even more depressed living in filth and it was starting to severely compound my stress levels and depression. I don't even know how people with kids do it, we're child-free and still absolutely tired from 8-hour work days, five days a week, of meaningless corpo drivel.

I think the entire capitalist system in the United States is set up in such a way to make it extremely difficult for people to get, or even want, a shortened work week. All those chores I can't do and pay for someone else to do because I feel like there's no time and I'm tired? All those restaurant and fast food meals we buy because there's I feel like no time and I'm tired? All those impulsive snacks I buy or easy frozen meals at the grocery store because there's no time to cook and I'm tired? All those are "cha-chings" to various industries that rule the United States. Fast food corporations want profits, restaurants want profits, junk food companies want profits, cleaning companies want profits, insurance and healthcare companies want profits and they're happy to get that from the poor health we experience from being overworked with a poor diets and lack of exercise. We have massive corporations hell-bent on keeping us tired, sick, and miserable so we keep buying their products and services. Fucking rat race.

That's not to say eating healthy and having a clean house is impossible in a 40-hour work week, but it makes it more difficult. And what I noticed is that if I want to do those things, like be able to cook meals and clean my house, I need to sacrifice time for other things. So, this usually means pushing aside hobbies and leisure, but also pushing aside abilities to focus on political activism. The only reason I can write this post right now is cuz I'm basically playing hooky on a Friday while I'm working from home...

So now you have an overstressed, overworked, and unhealthy due to poor diet and lack of exercise populace. They do not have socialized healthcare, so any ailments as a result of their poor diets and exercises and stress are their own responsibility. Their work is the thing that, maybe if they're "lucky", grants them some shitty form of healthcare, which still requires a bunch of money up front in deductibles and co-pays to even use. And these people are supposed to somehow be brave enough to ask for a reduced hours work week? Tie that in with the fact that the federal minimum wage has not increased since 2009—often I hear opponents of a reduced work week claim that wages won't rise (why would they, given our country's track record of not giving a shit how unsustainable our minimum wages are to have a decent life), so everyone who has an hourly wage gets a pay cut essentially. A potential pay cut during a time where rent is increasingly unaffordable, groceries are increasingly unaffordable. People look at the immediate outcomes and say "hell no."

I hate it so much. I rant about this all the time to my partner. There's so much more I could rant about. If we had a 32-hour work week, it would be much better. An extra date to clean, buy groceries, do chores, etc. All the shit that gets crammed into the evenings on the work week, or crammed into the two-day weekend, which barely feels like a break anymore. Sometimes my partner and I take a Friday or a Monday off, we try to do that once a month, and it just get filled up with overdue chores and tasks, it's only like a momentary pressure relief. I keep thinking about how if it was the norm to have an extra day off per week, how much less pressure would be building up over time, maybe life would feel sustainable again.

I really want to see a serious push for a 32-hour work week in the United States. I don't know how, but dear god please give us our fucking lives back. Honestly, I'm so bitter I don't think a 32-hour work week is good enough. I want to see 6 hours a day, 4 days a week—I want to see a 24-hour work week. Fuck this corpo shit. All this news about exponentially increased productivity for decades and somehow we're still on a fucking 40-hour work week barely starting the fight, if we even are, to get maaaaaybe one day shaved off?

Also, while I'm here I'm so sick of the goddamn corporate bootlickers who, every time when there is a discussion about a 4-day work week, come in raving about their goddamn 10-hour work days 4 days a week. Fuck right off, please. I don't want to sit in a fucking cube for 10 goddamn hours just to get one day back. Absolutely fucking bonkers. Shuffling around a pile of shit into a different shape still makes it a pile of shit. FUCK THE 40-HOUR WORK WEEK.

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Elsacat
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Aug 29 2025, 5:50 PM
#3
Are you me? Did you reach right into my brain to write all that? Because I have thought every single word of that, more times than I can count.

I remember working 40-hour weeks in years past when I didn't feel so drained at the end of each day and week. Maybe some of it was youthful energy, but I also think jobs these days are just more draining. Constant meetings, constant deliverables, always on, juggling email and chat and live meetings and online meetings, commuting (for those who don't work remote). And the demands of an international workforce with teams often scattered across time zones.

I hate it. But to get out of that means accepting less money than I can currently live on, and I don't have an extravagant lifestyle. I can make more cuts here and there. But it gets to a point where it feels like just paying to exist, and actually enjoying life requires a subscription upgrade.
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Elsacat
Aug 29 2025, 5:50 PM #3

Are you me? Did you reach right into my brain to write all that? Because I have thought every single word of that, more times than I can count.

I remember working 40-hour weeks in years past when I didn't feel so drained at the end of each day and week. Maybe some of it was youthful energy, but I also think jobs these days are just more draining. Constant meetings, constant deliverables, always on, juggling email and chat and live meetings and online meetings, commuting (for those who don't work remote). And the demands of an international workforce with teams often scattered across time zones.

I hate it. But to get out of that means accepting less money than I can currently live on, and I don't have an extravagant lifestyle. I can make more cuts here and there. But it gets to a point where it feels like just paying to exist, and actually enjoying life requires a subscription upgrade.

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jelliknight
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Aug 31 2025, 10:12 PM
#4
Absolutely. Theres a reason 40 hrs a week is "full time". Its about the most a normal person can actually work. Yes, some people work more, and they generally burn out. We need rest, sleep, and social time too. We're animals, not robots. Doing housework and childcare on top of all that is too much.

Why are we even doing this? In the 70s many women did not work outside the home at all. 50 years of automation and computerisation layer and now both parents need to work full time? How? How did we create that much extra work?

Tinfoil hat on: its designed intentionally to keep us pointlessly working. Look up "what happened in 1972" if we'd kept advancing as we were, we'd be at a 2 day work week by now. Except, no we wouldnt. Because if we could work 2 days and pay for all our needs, lots of people wpuld volunteer and create things and work together, further lowering the need for paid work. We'd have moved to a star-treky post-work economy by now. Capitalists would have no power.
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jelliknight
Aug 31 2025, 10:12 PM #4

Absolutely. Theres a reason 40 hrs a week is "full time". Its about the most a normal person can actually work. Yes, some people work more, and they generally burn out. We need rest, sleep, and social time too. We're animals, not robots. Doing housework and childcare on top of all that is too much.

Why are we even doing this? In the 70s many women did not work outside the home at all. 50 years of automation and computerisation layer and now both parents need to work full time? How? How did we create that much extra work?

Tinfoil hat on: its designed intentionally to keep us pointlessly working. Look up "what happened in 1972" if we'd kept advancing as we were, we'd be at a 2 day work week by now. Except, no we wouldnt. Because if we could work 2 days and pay for all our needs, lots of people wpuld volunteer and create things and work together, further lowering the need for paid work. We'd have moved to a star-treky post-work economy by now. Capitalists would have no power.

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jelliknight
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Aug 31 2025, 10:43 PM
#5
Absolutely. Theres a reason 40 hrs a week is "full time". Its about the most a normal person can actually work. Yes, some people work more, and they generally burn out. We need rest, sleep, and social time too. We're animals, not robots. Doing housework and childcare on top of all that is too much.

Why are we even doing this? In the 70s many women did not work outside the home at all. 50 years of automation and computerisation layer and now both parents need to work full time? How? How did we create that much extra work?

Tinfoil hat on: its designed intentionally to keep us pointlessly working. Look up "what happened in 1972" if we'd kept advancing as we were, we'd be at a 2 day work week by now. Except, no we wouldnt. Because if we could work 2 days and pay for all our needs, lots of people wpuld volunteer and create things and work together, further lowering the need for paid work. We'd have moved to a star-treky post-work economy by now. Capitalists would have no power.
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jelliknight
Aug 31 2025, 10:43 PM #5

Absolutely. Theres a reason 40 hrs a week is "full time". Its about the most a normal person can actually work. Yes, some people work more, and they generally burn out. We need rest, sleep, and social time too. We're animals, not robots. Doing housework and childcare on top of all that is too much.

Why are we even doing this? In the 70s many women did not work outside the home at all. 50 years of automation and computerisation layer and now both parents need to work full time? How? How did we create that much extra work?

Tinfoil hat on: its designed intentionally to keep us pointlessly working. Look up "what happened in 1972" if we'd kept advancing as we were, we'd be at a 2 day work week by now. Except, no we wouldnt. Because if we could work 2 days and pay for all our needs, lots of people wpuld volunteer and create things and work together, further lowering the need for paid work. We'd have moved to a star-treky post-work economy by now. Capitalists would have no power.

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Elsacat
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Sep 1 2025, 8:53 AM
#6
I think power is the big issue, too. Absent wealth disparity, how do people show power? What is there left for that type of person if there's nobody to have power over because everyone's needs are being met? Who are they supposed to feel superior to? Entire systems of civilization all boil down to narcissistic, babyish needs to be the center of attention and have the world revolve around them, serving them.
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Elsacat
Sep 1 2025, 8:53 AM #6

I think power is the big issue, too. Absent wealth disparity, how do people show power? What is there left for that type of person if there's nobody to have power over because everyone's needs are being met? Who are they supposed to feel superior to? Entire systems of civilization all boil down to narcissistic, babyish needs to be the center of attention and have the world revolve around them, serving them.

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Yesterday, 1:20 PM
#7
(Aug 29 2025, 5:50 PM)Elsacat Are you me? Did you reach right into my brain to write all that? Because I have thought every single word of that, more times than I can count.

I wonder how many more of us are out there, with NO TIME to talk about it or organize efforts to make something happen. All too stressed and tired needing to make our next paycheck to have a place to live, to have a meal, to have some form of shitty for-profit healthcare.

(Aug 31 2025, 10:43 PM)jelliknight Tinfoil hat on: its designed intentionally to keep us pointlessly working. Look up "what happened in 1972" if we'd kept advancing as we were, we'd be at a 2 day work week by now. Except, no we wouldnt. Because if we could work 2 days and pay for all our needs, lots of people wpuld volunteer and create things and work together, further lowering the need for paid work. We'd have moved to a star-treky post-work economy by now. Capitalists would have no power.

The wealthy know already that once you no longer need money, what you do with money is "buy time." In capitalist societies where wealth is power, they know that they need to keep everyone down by making sure not only do they not have enough money, but also not enough time.

No money, no time = barely keeping heads afloat trying to afford increasingly unaffordable costs of living. No time to critically think about overarching political systems that are making their lives shittier.

Money, no time = dwindling middle class, their money is being tied up in affording the increasing cost of living, time is spent on rat race activities.

Children also are a major timesink. Child-free people are more likely to have time, though even in this thread we see child-free still does not guarantee having enough time to be politically active. And even if there are people with enough time to be politically active, when most people don't have the time to be politically active, the activism is weakened and shaped by the few who can attend and participate. We are a social species, our strength is in numbers and working together.

Tie that in with rapid rise in short-form entertainment, TikTok and Instagram, owned by tech giants, focused on making algorithms that keep us in personalized little bubbles. We've never been more isolated online while pretending we're more connected than ever.

Wealth is compounding. The rich get richer. At some point their accumulated wealth gives them so much safety, so much time, that they can afford (both in wealth and in time) to make sure they set up systems to keep themselves in power.

Capitalists are using all means necessary to ensure we have no time, no power. Pro-natalist movements are focused on promoting nuclear family, which is largely about encouraging a "think only about the immediate people in your household and no more" mentality, and simply just being responsible for children taking up people's time. Increase usage of AI and H1Bs to keep wages low and people in competition with each other so people feel more pressure to keep working in worse conditions for less benefits and focus on not getting laid off.

What confuses me is how increasingly dangerous it is for the ruling/wealthy class to do this. I assume they hope to get an army of wage slaves that keep their lavish lifestyles going, and they're trying to maximize how much money they can squeeze out of people in all aspects. All the corporations are getting ridiculously greedy. They are selfish and don't seem to think about how the cost of everything is going up, they are each acting independently in their greed. What is going to happen when people snap from the pressure of a rapidly unaffordable life and deteriorating standards of living? I assume that's why they try so hard to obfuscate the class war and ensure division of the working class. They hope that if/when the snap happens, they'll have enough built up working class division that we attack each other.

Just rambling. I'm in big-time "depressed at the state of the world" mode.
Kozlik's regular member account. 🍀🐐
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Yesterday, 1:20 PM #7

(Aug 29 2025, 5:50 PM)Elsacat Are you me? Did you reach right into my brain to write all that? Because I have thought every single word of that, more times than I can count.

I wonder how many more of us are out there, with NO TIME to talk about it or organize efforts to make something happen. All too stressed and tired needing to make our next paycheck to have a place to live, to have a meal, to have some form of shitty for-profit healthcare.

(Aug 31 2025, 10:43 PM)jelliknight Tinfoil hat on: its designed intentionally to keep us pointlessly working. Look up "what happened in 1972" if we'd kept advancing as we were, we'd be at a 2 day work week by now. Except, no we wouldnt. Because if we could work 2 days and pay for all our needs, lots of people wpuld volunteer and create things and work together, further lowering the need for paid work. We'd have moved to a star-treky post-work economy by now. Capitalists would have no power.

The wealthy know already that once you no longer need money, what you do with money is "buy time." In capitalist societies where wealth is power, they know that they need to keep everyone down by making sure not only do they not have enough money, but also not enough time.

No money, no time = barely keeping heads afloat trying to afford increasingly unaffordable costs of living. No time to critically think about overarching political systems that are making their lives shittier.

Money, no time = dwindling middle class, their money is being tied up in affording the increasing cost of living, time is spent on rat race activities.

Children also are a major timesink. Child-free people are more likely to have time, though even in this thread we see child-free still does not guarantee having enough time to be politically active. And even if there are people with enough time to be politically active, when most people don't have the time to be politically active, the activism is weakened and shaped by the few who can attend and participate. We are a social species, our strength is in numbers and working together.

Tie that in with rapid rise in short-form entertainment, TikTok and Instagram, owned by tech giants, focused on making algorithms that keep us in personalized little bubbles. We've never been more isolated online while pretending we're more connected than ever.

Wealth is compounding. The rich get richer. At some point their accumulated wealth gives them so much safety, so much time, that they can afford (both in wealth and in time) to make sure they set up systems to keep themselves in power.

Capitalists are using all means necessary to ensure we have no time, no power. Pro-natalist movements are focused on promoting nuclear family, which is largely about encouraging a "think only about the immediate people in your household and no more" mentality, and simply just being responsible for children taking up people's time. Increase usage of AI and H1Bs to keep wages low and people in competition with each other so people feel more pressure to keep working in worse conditions for less benefits and focus on not getting laid off.

What confuses me is how increasingly dangerous it is for the ruling/wealthy class to do this. I assume they hope to get an army of wage slaves that keep their lavish lifestyles going, and they're trying to maximize how much money they can squeeze out of people in all aspects. All the corporations are getting ridiculously greedy. They are selfish and don't seem to think about how the cost of everything is going up, they are each acting independently in their greed. What is going to happen when people snap from the pressure of a rapidly unaffordable life and deteriorating standards of living? I assume that's why they try so hard to obfuscate the class war and ensure division of the working class. They hope that if/when the snap happens, they'll have enough built up working class division that we attack each other.

Just rambling. I'm in big-time "depressed at the state of the world" mode.

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