cloven hooves The Personal Is Political Lesbian & Bisexual Rights Social Media Ovarit post on o/Lesbians: "Where have we all gone?"

Social Media Ovarit post on o/Lesbians: "Where have we all gone?"

Social Media Ovarit post on o/Lesbians: "Where have we all gone?"

 
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komorebi
“I am not free while any woman is unfree, even when her shackles are very different from my own.” – Audre Lorde
164
Dec 19 2024, 3:39 PM
#11
Sorry, had a busy day! Finally got around to picking this back up. XD

(Dec 17 2024, 12:36 PM)Elsacat Until now, I'd have insisted women (unless maybe some TIFs) don't experience "gender euphoria." But what else is it when I'm in a nice feminine outfit, hair and makeup done, looking at myself in the mirror and feeling "pretty"?

Would I feel the same way if I were in a clean pressed button-down dress shirt, pressed trousers, shined flat dress shoes, hair short and neatly slicked back, face clean but no trace of makeup?

Or does the traditional gender presentation make me feel some kind of way, not sexual like with so many TIMs, but still an "I feel pretty" buzz? Is that not some kind of gender euphoria?

I do think enjoying "looking pretty" is a kind of gender euphoria, yeah. Like you said, not the sexual kind, but in my experience I see my gender friends using this term mostly in relation to being dressed in explicitly gendered ways (e.g. your very twee "lil ghei boi" aesthetic for TIFs, with suspenders and bow ties; or NBs who switch between very baggy hoodies and jeans with baseball cap and no makeup on one day vs. mini skirt, frilled blouse, cute accessories and makeup on another).

But it makes sense that people would feel this way, and I don't think women need to flagellate ourselves over it. Most people like feeling desirable, but society and culture dictate what's considered attractive, and furthermore, society wants to push gender on us. Because of all that, it makes sense that we end up parsing attractiveness through the lens of gender. We should just acknowledge where the feelings stem from and what they mean, so that we can work towards freeing ourselves from those expectations.
komorebi
“I am not free while any woman is unfree, even when her shackles are very different from my own.” – Audre Lorde
Dec 19 2024, 3:39 PM #11

Sorry, had a busy day! Finally got around to picking this back up. XD

(Dec 17 2024, 12:36 PM)Elsacat Until now, I'd have insisted women (unless maybe some TIFs) don't experience "gender euphoria." But what else is it when I'm in a nice feminine outfit, hair and makeup done, looking at myself in the mirror and feeling "pretty"?

Would I feel the same way if I were in a clean pressed button-down dress shirt, pressed trousers, shined flat dress shoes, hair short and neatly slicked back, face clean but no trace of makeup?

Or does the traditional gender presentation make me feel some kind of way, not sexual like with so many TIMs, but still an "I feel pretty" buzz? Is that not some kind of gender euphoria?

I do think enjoying "looking pretty" is a kind of gender euphoria, yeah. Like you said, not the sexual kind, but in my experience I see my gender friends using this term mostly in relation to being dressed in explicitly gendered ways (e.g. your very twee "lil ghei boi" aesthetic for TIFs, with suspenders and bow ties; or NBs who switch between very baggy hoodies and jeans with baseball cap and no makeup on one day vs. mini skirt, frilled blouse, cute accessories and makeup on another).

But it makes sense that people would feel this way, and I don't think women need to flagellate ourselves over it. Most people like feeling desirable, but society and culture dictate what's considered attractive, and furthermore, society wants to push gender on us. Because of all that, it makes sense that we end up parsing attractiveness through the lens of gender. We should just acknowledge where the feelings stem from and what they mean, so that we can work towards freeing ourselves from those expectations.

Jan 21 2025, 11:39 PM
#12
(Dec 17 2024, 11:51 AM)YesYourNigel lol would love to hear their reasoning. Is it "divisive"? Funny how white supremacism is never "divisive.

EXACTLY oh my goddess, they never acknowledge that they're the ones "fracturing the sisterhood" with their racist horseshit!  Well, I was first told that there were technical problems on the backend of the site that needed fixed before they could add more mods because the moderation tools weren't working well (I sympathize, yet somehow your white mods managed?) and then that they hadn't been able to find any WOC who they felt would make a good mod for a WOC circle and work well with them / not cause drama.  Which to me was insanely weird because multiple black women had offered, and they seemingly did get one black mod for another circle and still no WOC or black women's circle...

I don't know if the specific mod I spoke with was genuine and actually wanted to fix the problem, I want to think she was, but the reasons she cited gave me the impression that there was a white admin team unwilling to hand over a space to WOC unless they could find a mod who would obey rules from admin team and police WOC's speech in their own circle to white admin satisfaction, and the vibe that they maybe felt defensive/threatened by the outspoken criticism of white feminism and blatant racism on the site by the black women who were asking for their own circle.  That's just my speculation based on the claim they couldn't find a suitable mod, to be as transparent as possible.  If they think it's bad faith speculation well, they're making it pretty hard to take it in good faith that they give a flying fuck about how racist their site is so they can feel free to prove me wrong by cracking down on the white supremacist nonsense anytime now.

Also hi, was wondering why I didn't hear back when I replied to your message over there!  That degrading feminine clothing defense thread was a fucking choice feminism dumpster fire of migraine-inducing proportions, what a fucking embarrassment.  I just left the site for at least a week after seeing the admin shutting down basic feminist analysis of restrictive and impractical clothing.

I'm still trying to get the hang of the interface over here because I don't want to quote everyone's entire post to reply and it's a bit tedious to edit on mobile, but I'll try to check here more as I have much preferred the level of consciousness so far LOL.
sealwomyn
Jan 21 2025, 11:39 PM #12

(Dec 17 2024, 11:51 AM)YesYourNigel lol would love to hear their reasoning. Is it "divisive"? Funny how white supremacism is never "divisive.

EXACTLY oh my goddess, they never acknowledge that they're the ones "fracturing the sisterhood" with their racist horseshit!  Well, I was first told that there were technical problems on the backend of the site that needed fixed before they could add more mods because the moderation tools weren't working well (I sympathize, yet somehow your white mods managed?) and then that they hadn't been able to find any WOC who they felt would make a good mod for a WOC circle and work well with them / not cause drama.  Which to me was insanely weird because multiple black women had offered, and they seemingly did get one black mod for another circle and still no WOC or black women's circle...

I don't know if the specific mod I spoke with was genuine and actually wanted to fix the problem, I want to think she was, but the reasons she cited gave me the impression that there was a white admin team unwilling to hand over a space to WOC unless they could find a mod who would obey rules from admin team and police WOC's speech in their own circle to white admin satisfaction, and the vibe that they maybe felt defensive/threatened by the outspoken criticism of white feminism and blatant racism on the site by the black women who were asking for their own circle.  That's just my speculation based on the claim they couldn't find a suitable mod, to be as transparent as possible.  If they think it's bad faith speculation well, they're making it pretty hard to take it in good faith that they give a flying fuck about how racist their site is so they can feel free to prove me wrong by cracking down on the white supremacist nonsense anytime now.

Also hi, was wondering why I didn't hear back when I replied to your message over there!  That degrading feminine clothing defense thread was a fucking choice feminism dumpster fire of migraine-inducing proportions, what a fucking embarrassment.  I just left the site for at least a week after seeing the admin shutting down basic feminist analysis of restrictive and impractical clothing.

I'm still trying to get the hang of the interface over here because I don't want to quote everyone's entire post to reply and it's a bit tedious to edit on mobile, but I'll try to check here more as I have much preferred the level of consciousness so far LOL.

Jan 22 2025, 9:41 PM
#13
(Jan 21 2025, 11:39 PM)sealwomyn they seemingly did get one black mod for another circle
We can't be racist, we have a black friend mod

Quote:unless they could find a mod who would obey rules from admin team and police WOC's speech in their own circle to white admin satisfaction
Hey can you please not make the poor white women feel threatened plz it's very divisive 🥺 Can't we all just get along?

Quote:Also hi, was wondering why I didn't hear back when I replied to your message over there!

Oh I remember! You were literally the only other person on that fucking dumpster fire thread who wasn't bullshitting and gaslighting. I felt really frustrated that I couldn't reply to your messages.

Quote:I'm still trying to get the hang of the interface over here 

Yeah I have the same issues. I struggle with named quoting, and formatting is just not there by default on mobile. I should ask the mod what's up.
YesYourNigel
Jan 22 2025, 9:41 PM #13

(Jan 21 2025, 11:39 PM)sealwomyn they seemingly did get one black mod for another circle
We can't be racist, we have a black friend mod

Quote:unless they could find a mod who would obey rules from admin team and police WOC's speech in their own circle to white admin satisfaction
Hey can you please not make the poor white women feel threatened plz it's very divisive 🥺 Can't we all just get along?

Quote:Also hi, was wondering why I didn't hear back when I replied to your message over there!

Oh I remember! You were literally the only other person on that fucking dumpster fire thread who wasn't bullshitting and gaslighting. I felt really frustrated that I couldn't reply to your messages.

Quote:I'm still trying to get the hang of the interface over here 

Yeah I have the same issues. I struggle with named quoting, and formatting is just not there by default on mobile. I should ask the mod what's up.

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