Thoughts on conservatism
Thoughts on conservatism
Cougardoodle The police started harassing [the unarmed woman who rescued her kids during the Ulvade School Massacre] and the community joined in.
For conservatives it seems clear that obeying their perceived social order is more important than saving their children.
This jives with Whilelm Reich's seminal works on the conservative mindset, which concludes it's primarily driven by anxiety based on fear of not having rigid social roles.
African_Farmer Honestly this explains a lot. The need for religion, religious virtue-signalling, performative patriotism, rules for thee not for me, beliefs that the rich and powerful "deserve" their wealth and power.
All because they believe in hierarchies and that people should stay in their place, unless it's them personally moving up the hierarchy.
Curious_Fox4595 They need those hierarchies so much. There's some interesting stuff out there discussing how the power differential of the vertical system of Christianity forms the basis of how they think everything should work. It doesn't matter if the rules make sense or cause harm, they need to be followed, not questioned, or heaven forbid, changed. They come down from a higher power, which means you obey, and you like it.
A thread to collect my thoughts and observations on conservatism/right-wing politics or resources I find useful.
Cougardoodle The police started harassing [the unarmed woman who rescued her kids during the Ulvade School Massacre] and the community joined in.
For conservatives it seems clear that obeying their perceived social order is more important than saving their children.
This jives with Whilelm Reich's seminal works on the conservative mindset, which concludes it's primarily driven by anxiety based on fear of not having rigid social roles.
African_Farmer Honestly this explains a lot. The need for religion, religious virtue-signalling, performative patriotism, rules for thee not for me, beliefs that the rich and powerful "deserve" their wealth and power.
All because they believe in hierarchies and that people should stay in their place, unless it's them personally moving up the hierarchy.
Curious_Fox4595 They need those hierarchies so much. There's some interesting stuff out there discussing how the power differential of the vertical system of Christianity forms the basis of how they think everything should work. It doesn't matter if the rules make sense or cause harm, they need to be followed, not questioned, or heaven forbid, changed. They come down from a higher power, which means you obey, and you like it.
I wrote in my response to Kozlik's questions about how this fundamental reliance on hierarchy is in direct conflict with the New Testament, e.g.:
St Paul writing to the Galatians: Gal 3:28
The Beatitudes: Mat 5:5
The story of the rich young man: Mat 19:30 and Mat 20:16
Jesus washing his disciples' feet: John 13:5
I don't see how Christianity and hierarchy can actually be reconciled. (The answer of course is that Christianity is actually the religion of the Roman Empire, not the New Testament.)
I think New Testament is not all it's cracked up to be. Women on Ovarit sometimes handwave away criticisms of the Bible if it's based on quoting OT because "that's OT" but there are similarly sexist passages in the NT (scroll down for the NT passages). Then they sometimes handwave that away because "it's Timothy, he doesn't count!" or whoever that one super sexist guy is in the NT.
The Bible is strange, because certain passages do preach values of equality and fairness among all. Yet other passages glorify obedience to hierarchies (most commonly patriarchal, women obeying men).
Modern-day Christians, especially ones in the United States, especially ones who are "loud and proud" about being Christian (which ironically is also frowned upon in the Bible if I recall correctly) worship Supply Side Jesus.
Yeah, I'm not talking about sexism here, just pointing out that the New Testament, and Jesus's actions as described therein, conflict with conservatives' fundamental reliance on the immutability of hierarchy, and I can't personally figure out why that doesn't register with Christian conservatives. (As I said, the actual answer to this riddle is that the Christianity we experience today is the religion of the Roman Empire, which aligns pretty neatly with what conservatives want from a religion.)
NYT article "your religious values are not American values" discussion thread on r/atheism: https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1dvx0dc/your_religious_values_are_not_american_values/
acfox13 It is exactly operant conditioning.
Links on authoritarian abuse and brainwashing tactics:
authoritarian follower personality (mini dictators that simp for other dictators):
https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/summary.html#authoritarian
It's an abuse hierarchy and you can abuse anyone "beneath you" in the hierarchy. Men are above women, adults above kids, parents above child free, religious above non-believers, white's above BIPOCs, straights above LGBTQ+, abled above disabled, rich above poor, etc.
Bob Altemeyer's site:
https://theauthoritarians.org/
The Eight Criteria for Thought Reform (aka the authoritarian playbook):
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_Reform_and_the_Psychology_of_Totalism
John Bradshaw's 1985 program discussing how normalized abuse and neglect in the family of origin primes the brain to participate in group abuse up to and including genocide:
https://youtu.be/B0TJHygOAlw?si=_pQp8aMMpTy0C7U0
[Theramin Trees](https://youtube.com/@TheraminTrees?si=lROe-8D6cLa8Sa8r ) - great resource on abuse tactics like: emotional blackmail, double binds, drama disguised as "help", degrading "love", infantalization, etc. and adding this link to [spiritual bypassing](https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-spiritual-bypassing-5081640 ), as it's one of abuser's favorite tactics.
DARVO
https://dynamic.uoregon.edu/jjf/defineDARVO.html
DARVO refers to a reaction perpetrators of wrong doing, particularly sexual offenders, may display in response to being held accountable for their behavior. DARVO stands for "Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender." The perpetrator or offender may Deny the behavior, Attack the individual doing the confronting, and Reverse the roles of Victim and Offender such that the perpetrator assumes the victim role and turns the true victim -- or the whistle blower -- into an alleged offender.
Issendai's site on estrangement:
https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html - This speaks to how normalized abuse is to toxic "parents", they don't even recognize that they've done anything wrong.
"The Brainwashing of my Dad" 2015 documentary:
https://youtu.be/FS52QdHNTh8?si=EWjyrrp_7aSRRAoT
"On Tyranny - twenty lessons from the twentieth century" by Timothy Snyder
Here's his website: https://timothysnyder.org/on-tyranny
Here's a playlist of him going over all twenty lessons: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhZxrogyToZsllfRqQllyuFNbT-ER7TAu&si=au1efIEgMdmqMNNl
Cult expert Dr. Steve Hassan
His website: https://freedomofmind.com/
His YouTube channel: https://youtube.com/@drstevenhassan?si=UZsPskGALAY9viKe
"Never Split the Difference" by Chris Voss. He was the lead FBI hostage negotiator and his tactics work well on setting boundaries with "difficult people".
https://www.blackswanltd.com/never-split-the-difference
>"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." - Lyndon B. Johnson
Comment on a Reddit post about a state forcing students to cite the pledge of allegiance: https://reddit.com/comments/1i2pozm/comment/m7gi05y
acfox13 It is exactly operant conditioning.
Links on authoritarian abuse and brainwashing tactics:
authoritarian follower personality (mini dictators that simp for other dictators):
https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/summary.html#authoritarian
It's an abuse hierarchy and you can abuse anyone "beneath you" in the hierarchy. Men are above women, adults above kids, parents above child free, religious above non-believers, white's above BIPOCs, straights above LGBTQ+, abled above disabled, rich above poor, etc.
Bob Altemeyer's site:
https://theauthoritarians.org/
The Eight Criteria for Thought Reform (aka the authoritarian playbook):
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_Reform_and_the_Psychology_of_Totalism
John Bradshaw's 1985 program discussing how normalized abuse and neglect in the family of origin primes the brain to participate in group abuse up to and including genocide:
https://youtu.be/B0TJHygOAlw?si=_pQp8aMMpTy0C7U0
[Theramin Trees](https://youtube.com/@TheraminTrees?si=lROe-8D6cLa8Sa8r ) - great resource on abuse tactics like: emotional blackmail, double binds, drama disguised as "help", degrading "love", infantalization, etc. and adding this link to [spiritual bypassing](https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-spiritual-bypassing-5081640 ), as it's one of abuser's favorite tactics.
DARVO
https://dynamic.uoregon.edu/jjf/defineDARVO.html
DARVO refers to a reaction perpetrators of wrong doing, particularly sexual offenders, may display in response to being held accountable for their behavior. DARVO stands for "Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender." The perpetrator or offender may Deny the behavior, Attack the individual doing the confronting, and Reverse the roles of Victim and Offender such that the perpetrator assumes the victim role and turns the true victim -- or the whistle blower -- into an alleged offender.
Issendai's site on estrangement:
https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html - This speaks to how normalized abuse is to toxic "parents", they don't even recognize that they've done anything wrong.
"The Brainwashing of my Dad" 2015 documentary:
https://youtu.be/FS52QdHNTh8?si=EWjyrrp_7aSRRAoT
"On Tyranny - twenty lessons from the twentieth century" by Timothy Snyder
Here's his website: https://timothysnyder.org/on-tyranny
Here's a playlist of him going over all twenty lessons: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhZxrogyToZsllfRqQllyuFNbT-ER7TAu&si=au1efIEgMdmqMNNl
Cult expert Dr. Steve Hassan
His website: https://freedomofmind.com/
His YouTube channel: https://youtube.com/@drstevenhassan?si=UZsPskGALAY9viKe
"Never Split the Difference" by Chris Voss. He was the lead FBI hostage negotiator and his tactics work well on setting boundaries with "difficult people".
https://www.blackswanltd.com/never-split-the-difference
>"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." - Lyndon B. Johnson