clovenhooves The Personal Is Political Lesbian & Bisexual Rights Social Media Ovarit post on o/Lesbians: "Where have we all gone?"

Social Media Ovarit post on o/Lesbians: "Where have we all gone?"

Social Media Ovarit post on o/Lesbians: "Where have we all gone?"

 
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Clover
Kozlik's regular account šŸ€šŸ
1,534
Feb 25 2025, 6:01 PM
#31
I think that Karen is definitely derogatory slang used to disparage women. It's certainly not a racist slur, as YYN points out the reasons for that. I hesitate to consider it a slur, because I don't see how a common name could be a slur. I guess because to me there is a massive difference in offense to being called "b*tch" versus "Karen," because of the etymology of the words themselves. And also because of the watering down ExitStageLeft points out: ā€œit is now used to insult any woman for being anything other than demure.ā€ So it's 1. so overused it has become noise, and 2. at its core, it's a formerly popular "female" name from a few decades ago. (Which means the most women with that name are now middle-aged and thus demonized, Victoria Smith's Hags has a good section on the term "Karen.")

Looking from a wider lens, an apparent "over focus" on the term "Karen" on Ovarit can indeed suggest that a large part of the userbase are white older women. Which, from looking at voting demographics from the 2024 USA election exit polls, can tell one a bit about their general political views, and thus the overall political views of the website itself.
Clover
Kozlik's regular account šŸ€šŸ
Feb 25 2025, 6:01 PM #31

I think that Karen is definitely derogatory slang used to disparage women. It's certainly not a racist slur, as YYN points out the reasons for that. I hesitate to consider it a slur, because I don't see how a common name could be a slur. I guess because to me there is a massive difference in offense to being called "b*tch" versus "Karen," because of the etymology of the words themselves. And also because of the watering down ExitStageLeft points out: ā€œit is now used to insult any woman for being anything other than demure.ā€ So it's 1. so overused it has become noise, and 2. at its core, it's a formerly popular "female" name from a few decades ago. (Which means the most women with that name are now middle-aged and thus demonized, Victoria Smith's Hags has a good section on the term "Karen.")

Looking from a wider lens, an apparent "over focus" on the term "Karen" on Ovarit can indeed suggest that a large part of the userbase are white older women. Which, from looking at voting demographics from the 2024 USA election exit polls, can tell one a bit about their general political views, and thus the overall political views of the website itself.

Apr 17 2025, 11:42 AM
#32
the women who argue "not all men" are really saying "it is some women"

if it really is a good/nice man, then why waste that defending men generally?

I often tell straight women that gay does not mean the man is less sexist

any more than a man being a atheist makes him less sexist
nina from canada eh
Apr 17 2025, 11:42 AM #32

the women who argue "not all men" are really saying "it is some women"

if it really is a good/nice man, then why waste that defending men generally?

I often tell straight women that gay does not mean the man is less sexist

any more than a man being a atheist makes him less sexist

168
Dec 31 2025, 3:19 AM
#33
(Dec 16 2024, 11:43 AM)Clover I think one of the first telltale signs that Ovarit was leaning towards conservatism was when a detrans woman spoke about how she felt unwelcome on Ovarit. Back then I was surprised, because there is even a circle dedicated to detrans women! But it is an extremely inactive circle. And then I started paying closer attention and I saw what she meant. Sometimes you can just pick up a vibe and tell you're not "welcome" there. Especially if a detrans woman chose to be trans due to wanting to be GNC, when a large majority of Ovarit don't really have GC takes or support GNC, they just want trans to "go away" and I guess they think gender non-conformity is just magically going to go away with it..? It very much doesn't feel like a place where one can feel vulnerable/supported about such topics.

Anyway, I guess my point there is "just because a circle exists for a group of women, doesn't mean the website as a whole is welcoming of that group." I am disappointed to see one of them said ā€œI came in here to say that lesbians get banned for standing up to the homophobic nonsense here.ā€ Although I am a strange mixture of shocked and yet also unsurprised? Right-wing rhetoric doesn't jump out guns blazing right away, it creeps in slowly. The idea of "dogwhistles" gets a fair amount of mockery, no thanks to TRAs abusing that term to claim anything under the sun is a "terf/transphobic dogwhistle," but I do believe dogwhistles exist (I just know claiming is a dogwhistle is absolutely useless nowadays, but to actually pick apart the dogwhistle takes so much energy than it does for the person who uses it). Those who are part of minority groups are more likely to pick up on it sooner, more likely to voice concerns, and more likely to "act out of line" (get warnings/bans) when calling out prejudiced takes they see (especially when earlier concerns may have been dismissed). Or they can just get fed up with seeing such takes and just leave. Although, another caveat to all this that I'm saying, conservative/right-wing lesbians exist lol, so that might make a lesbian online community (especially on Ovarit which is welcomes right-wingers) even more fractured/less likely to engage with each other, since politics have become so extremely polarized.

TLDR; sadge for lesbian women on Ovarit.

All of this is so true 😭😭😭 i remember getting chewed out for my post asking "how can some of us (who want to) make Ovarit a more welcoming space for detrans women?" And i got ganged up on for "expecting them to do more emotional labor when they as women already do so much emotional labor." Um lol, most of the complainers on that post did literally no emotional labor and instead make women of color, lesbian women, detrans women, and other minority women do all the emotional labor for them and cater to their fee-fees. šŸ™„ it's honestly so tiring how these MAGA conservative white-supremacist rightwingers keep on taking credit for emotional labor done by countless other radfems and libfems :/

It's so strange how some people can't see through how disingenuous these rightwingers sound
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dobby
Dec 31 2025, 3:19 AM #33

(Dec 16 2024, 11:43 AM)Clover I think one of the first telltale signs that Ovarit was leaning towards conservatism was when a detrans woman spoke about how she felt unwelcome on Ovarit. Back then I was surprised, because there is even a circle dedicated to detrans women! But it is an extremely inactive circle. And then I started paying closer attention and I saw what she meant. Sometimes you can just pick up a vibe and tell you're not "welcome" there. Especially if a detrans woman chose to be trans due to wanting to be GNC, when a large majority of Ovarit don't really have GC takes or support GNC, they just want trans to "go away" and I guess they think gender non-conformity is just magically going to go away with it..? It very much doesn't feel like a place where one can feel vulnerable/supported about such topics.

Anyway, I guess my point there is "just because a circle exists for a group of women, doesn't mean the website as a whole is welcoming of that group." I am disappointed to see one of them said ā€œI came in here to say that lesbians get banned for standing up to the homophobic nonsense here.ā€ Although I am a strange mixture of shocked and yet also unsurprised? Right-wing rhetoric doesn't jump out guns blazing right away, it creeps in slowly. The idea of "dogwhistles" gets a fair amount of mockery, no thanks to TRAs abusing that term to claim anything under the sun is a "terf/transphobic dogwhistle," but I do believe dogwhistles exist (I just know claiming is a dogwhistle is absolutely useless nowadays, but to actually pick apart the dogwhistle takes so much energy than it does for the person who uses it). Those who are part of minority groups are more likely to pick up on it sooner, more likely to voice concerns, and more likely to "act out of line" (get warnings/bans) when calling out prejudiced takes they see (especially when earlier concerns may have been dismissed). Or they can just get fed up with seeing such takes and just leave. Although, another caveat to all this that I'm saying, conservative/right-wing lesbians exist lol, so that might make a lesbian online community (especially on Ovarit which is welcomes right-wingers) even more fractured/less likely to engage with each other, since politics have become so extremely polarized.

TLDR; sadge for lesbian women on Ovarit.

All of this is so true 😭😭😭 i remember getting chewed out for my post asking "how can some of us (who want to) make Ovarit a more welcoming space for detrans women?" And i got ganged up on for "expecting them to do more emotional labor when they as women already do so much emotional labor." Um lol, most of the complainers on that post did literally no emotional labor and instead make women of color, lesbian women, detrans women, and other minority women do all the emotional labor for them and cater to their fee-fees. šŸ™„ it's honestly so tiring how these MAGA conservative white-supremacist rightwingers keep on taking credit for emotional labor done by countless other radfems and libfems :/

It's so strange how some people can't see through how disingenuous these rightwingers sound

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Dec 31 2025, 3:42 PM
#34
(Feb 13 2025, 12:22 PM)lesbiansherlock
(Feb 13 2025, 12:05 PM)ShameMustChangeSides
(Feb 13 2025, 11:50 AM)lesbiansherlock Lesbians are only used as a counter argument against TIMs, when it’s convenient.

When it comes to standing up for us I found most people on Ovarit really insensitive and low key homophobic.

The glee people had trashing everything gay, the original gay flag and any and all festivities during pride month was very telling. There’s a difference complaining about the furry and trans takeover and… whatever it is they do over there these days.

Also it’s just me being petty but a while ago I posted a thread with pictures of Blake Lively wearing suits (I mean what’s more lesbian than that) and it got deleted without any explanation so yeah bye.

Yeah last pride month really brought out the homophobes and made them way too comfortable hating on gay people.
Lol people lost it over a random town in Canada painting ONE crosswalk with rainbow colors… Says it all.
dobby bumping threads got me to read this, but I remember this, I think I stopped posting on Ovarit just after this thread. There were people concern posting about how colour blind or visually impaired people would use it, and it made me wonder just how ridiculous it was. Pride is for LGB people too, it's not a trans thing, and they way they were going after the rainbow flag just made me feel unsafe as a lesbian
LeftFem
Dec 31 2025, 3:42 PM #34

(Feb 13 2025, 12:22 PM)lesbiansherlock
(Feb 13 2025, 12:05 PM)ShameMustChangeSides
(Feb 13 2025, 11:50 AM)lesbiansherlock Lesbians are only used as a counter argument against TIMs, when it’s convenient.

When it comes to standing up for us I found most people on Ovarit really insensitive and low key homophobic.

The glee people had trashing everything gay, the original gay flag and any and all festivities during pride month was very telling. There’s a difference complaining about the furry and trans takeover and… whatever it is they do over there these days.

Also it’s just me being petty but a while ago I posted a thread with pictures of Blake Lively wearing suits (I mean what’s more lesbian than that) and it got deleted without any explanation so yeah bye.

Yeah last pride month really brought out the homophobes and made them way too comfortable hating on gay people.
Lol people lost it over a random town in Canada painting ONE crosswalk with rainbow colors… Says it all.
dobby bumping threads got me to read this, but I remember this, I think I stopped posting on Ovarit just after this thread. There were people concern posting about how colour blind or visually impaired people would use it, and it made me wonder just how ridiculous it was. Pride is for LGB people too, it's not a trans thing, and they way they were going after the rainbow flag just made me feel unsafe as a lesbian

168
Jan 3 2026, 6:29 PM
#35
(Dec 31 2025, 3:42 PM)LeftFem
(Feb 13 2025, 12:22 PM)lesbiansherlock
(Feb 13 2025, 12:05 PM)ShameMustChangeSides
(Feb 13 2025, 11:50 AM)lesbiansherlock Lesbians are only used as a counter argument against TIMs, when it’s convenient.

When it comes to standing up for us I found most people on Ovarit really insensitive and low key homophobic.

The glee people had trashing everything gay, the original gay flag and any and all festivities during pride month was very telling. There’s a difference complaining about the furry and trans takeover and… whatever it is they do over there these days.

Also it’s just me being petty but a while ago I posted a thread with pictures of Blake Lively wearing suits (I mean what’s more lesbian than that) and it got deleted without any explanation so yeah bye.

Yeah last pride month really brought out the homophobes and made them way too comfortable hating on gay people.
Lol people lost it over a random town in Canada painting ONE crosswalk with rainbow colors… Says it all.
dobby bumping threads got me to read this, but I remember this, I think I stopped posting on Ovarit just after this thread. There were people concern posting about how colour blind or visually impaired people would use it, and it made me wonder just how ridiculous it was. Pride is for LGB people too, it's not a trans thing, and they way they were going after the rainbow flag just made me feel unsafe as a lesbian

Aww, bestie, I just wanna give you a hug. 😭 The homophobia in these GC spaces is SO awful, I just wanna scream at seeing some of the comments being so callously and cruelly made. :( Yesterday, I saw owl lady commenting on Vexxed that "gays haven't been oppressed"... smh like wtf is that homophobic misinformation doing on a supposed "feminist" website. It was such an inaccurate comment, and also completely ignored the existence of lesbian women, and also completely re-defined "oppression" in such a way that dismissed and erased the experiences of oppression of a majority of the women in the world. 😢 Owl lady sounded like such a man when she said some of this nonsensical dismissive uninformed homophobic and misogynistic BS. I had written more than half of a long comment yesterday to reply to owl lady's incorrect homophobic comment with, and then felt so burnt out that I never yet finished the comment in order to reply to her with it tbh. 😄

On substack this morning, I saw a white woman with seemingly not-racist intentions re-stacking her dismissive, vaguely racist commentary onto a more dogwhistle-y racist, misogynistic-seeming note by a white man who mocked the feelings of POC (and threw random off-topic shade at black women) through his screenshotting and snarking on a not-even-offensive twitter tweet from years ago from a woman named Sari who only tweeted a really valid comment saying "Normalize asking white people where they are really from" that had apparently generated so much harassment and negativity and trolling (especially from racist white men and their pick-mes) that this woman ended up privating her twitter account and she seems to have eventually deleted her account by now. And I had spent hours today for some reason in trying to write out a polite reply in good faith to the white woman on substack who I had thought hopefully maybe didn't realize the microaggressions and racism in her comment and in the comment of that man she re-stacked, and trying to re-write it too different times in shorter, less redundant ways because my comment had gotten so absurdly long each time, until I got exhausted at trying and just gave up on the idea of replying to point out the racism when it seems like me doing so, would probably only end up putting a spotlight on me to be harassed by the growing number of neo-Nazis and white nationalists on substack lol (since that pick-me woman had many male conservative followers anyway, and upon seeing her other posts, I saw even more re-stacked notes of rightwing conservative racist-ish propaganda with anti-immigration, anti-POC, anti-left, and anti-black sentiments this time, including a lot of propaganda talking about the Somalian Medicaid Fraud thing recently... I just feel so demoralized at how easily so many white people buy into hatred and propaganda about foreigners, immigrants, and people of color. Yesterday, I saw this one small "influencer" account I followed on Instagram, a white lesbian woman named Becky Weiss, who seemed so chill and so full of common sense in past posts when she's talked about gender nonconformity and about letting kids grow up normally and all sorts of GC stuff, but the video I had seen on her Instagram yesterday, in which she went on such a wild hateful spiral equating the mere act of Zohran Mamdani being sworn in as NY governor by taking his oath on the Quran as him condoning and trying to spread all the BS in the Quran to New Yorkers... and she just went on this unhinged racist-sounding rant against him and against Muslims (obviously I'm aware that "Muslim isn't a race", as owl lady commented back at me 3 or 4 days ago on Vexxed to remind me, but it's so hard to see all the implied racism, xenophobia, homophobia, misogyny, and all the anti-Muslim hate being spewed by rightwingers lately and to feel so helpless at stopping the spread of racist propaganda infecting every formerly-decent-seeming white person. 😭😭😭 Like, I can't believe it's gotten to the point where I as a Zohran Mamdani hater myself almost felt compelled to defend him (mainly defend the Muslims she's generalizing though) from the nonsensical arguments that Becky Weiss had been making to try to rile up more public hate and distrust for Americans of Muslim origin. 😢 Like what else were people expecting Mamdani to be sworn in on?! The Bible?! Because if he had, people, especially rightwingers would've still pointed out how meaningless it is for a politician who has grown up as a Muslim to be sworn in on a Christian book he doesn't believe in and imply he's dishonest for that reason. I know that Mamdani is a Hinduphobe anyway, but he'd have similarly gotten even worse racist comments if he'd sworn on one of the Hindu religious text due to his mother's religion, so he would've been criticized no matter what. There were so many racist comments on Becky Weiss's Instagram post, some of which were saying things like how "every politician should have to be sworn in on the Bible", while implying that those who did not grow up as Christian shouldn't be trusted to be politicians in the US. šŸ˜­šŸ¤¦ā€ā™€ļø And I don't understand still how even Becky Weiss, who had seemed so cool and normal before, had turned into a conservative Republican who is now also a Christian and who supports racist propaganda. :/ It makes me regret even trying to recruit lesbian women to Vexxed because I realized in the past few days that I was so wrong about the possibility of at least making Vexxed into a safe space for lesbian women. 😭 With people like owl lady and others increasingly ratcheting up hate and tension for basically every marginalized demographic of woman, at best, that site will only end up converting some lesbian women into white nationalists and at worse will probably end up pushing some of them into Christian conversion therapy or into radicalizing into the other direction of becoming hardcore TRAs once the hatred from conservatives makes them snap. Tbh half the time, when I see all the hatred in GC spaces like Vexxed, Ovarit, twitter, substack, etc, I feel like I'd rather be a TRA actually, because most of my TRA friends online have always been so kind to everyone and would never go along with hateful, racist, homophobic, xenophobic, misogynistic propaganda. Tbh, I really understand why most normal sane people would rather err on the side of "being kind" towards everyone, even if it means to them that they'd be giving the benefit of the doubt to criminals who happen to be TIMs when the opposing site is full of hateful vitriolic racist white-nationalist homophobes who have the most burning intense hatred towards anyone with a Muslim name. :/ It's so crazy.
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dobby
Jan 3 2026, 6:29 PM #35

(Dec 31 2025, 3:42 PM)LeftFem
(Feb 13 2025, 12:22 PM)lesbiansherlock
(Feb 13 2025, 12:05 PM)ShameMustChangeSides
(Feb 13 2025, 11:50 AM)lesbiansherlock Lesbians are only used as a counter argument against TIMs, when it’s convenient.

When it comes to standing up for us I found most people on Ovarit really insensitive and low key homophobic.

The glee people had trashing everything gay, the original gay flag and any and all festivities during pride month was very telling. There’s a difference complaining about the furry and trans takeover and… whatever it is they do over there these days.

Also it’s just me being petty but a while ago I posted a thread with pictures of Blake Lively wearing suits (I mean what’s more lesbian than that) and it got deleted without any explanation so yeah bye.

Yeah last pride month really brought out the homophobes and made them way too comfortable hating on gay people.
Lol people lost it over a random town in Canada painting ONE crosswalk with rainbow colors… Says it all.
dobby bumping threads got me to read this, but I remember this, I think I stopped posting on Ovarit just after this thread. There were people concern posting about how colour blind or visually impaired people would use it, and it made me wonder just how ridiculous it was. Pride is for LGB people too, it's not a trans thing, and they way they were going after the rainbow flag just made me feel unsafe as a lesbian

Aww, bestie, I just wanna give you a hug. 😭 The homophobia in these GC spaces is SO awful, I just wanna scream at seeing some of the comments being so callously and cruelly made. :( Yesterday, I saw owl lady commenting on Vexxed that "gays haven't been oppressed"... smh like wtf is that homophobic misinformation doing on a supposed "feminist" website. It was such an inaccurate comment, and also completely ignored the existence of lesbian women, and also completely re-defined "oppression" in such a way that dismissed and erased the experiences of oppression of a majority of the women in the world. 😢 Owl lady sounded like such a man when she said some of this nonsensical dismissive uninformed homophobic and misogynistic BS. I had written more than half of a long comment yesterday to reply to owl lady's incorrect homophobic comment with, and then felt so burnt out that I never yet finished the comment in order to reply to her with it tbh. 😄

On substack this morning, I saw a white woman with seemingly not-racist intentions re-stacking her dismissive, vaguely racist commentary onto a more dogwhistle-y racist, misogynistic-seeming note by a white man who mocked the feelings of POC (and threw random off-topic shade at black women) through his screenshotting and snarking on a not-even-offensive twitter tweet from years ago from a woman named Sari who only tweeted a really valid comment saying "Normalize asking white people where they are really from" that had apparently generated so much harassment and negativity and trolling (especially from racist white men and their pick-mes) that this woman ended up privating her twitter account and she seems to have eventually deleted her account by now. And I had spent hours today for some reason in trying to write out a polite reply in good faith to the white woman on substack who I had thought hopefully maybe didn't realize the microaggressions and racism in her comment and in the comment of that man she re-stacked, and trying to re-write it too different times in shorter, less redundant ways because my comment had gotten so absurdly long each time, until I got exhausted at trying and just gave up on the idea of replying to point out the racism when it seems like me doing so, would probably only end up putting a spotlight on me to be harassed by the growing number of neo-Nazis and white nationalists on substack lol (since that pick-me woman had many male conservative followers anyway, and upon seeing her other posts, I saw even more re-stacked notes of rightwing conservative racist-ish propaganda with anti-immigration, anti-POC, anti-left, and anti-black sentiments this time, including a lot of propaganda talking about the Somalian Medicaid Fraud thing recently... I just feel so demoralized at how easily so many white people buy into hatred and propaganda about foreigners, immigrants, and people of color. Yesterday, I saw this one small "influencer" account I followed on Instagram, a white lesbian woman named Becky Weiss, who seemed so chill and so full of common sense in past posts when she's talked about gender nonconformity and about letting kids grow up normally and all sorts of GC stuff, but the video I had seen on her Instagram yesterday, in which she went on such a wild hateful spiral equating the mere act of Zohran Mamdani being sworn in as NY governor by taking his oath on the Quran as him condoning and trying to spread all the BS in the Quran to New Yorkers... and she just went on this unhinged racist-sounding rant against him and against Muslims (obviously I'm aware that "Muslim isn't a race", as owl lady commented back at me 3 or 4 days ago on Vexxed to remind me, but it's so hard to see all the implied racism, xenophobia, homophobia, misogyny, and all the anti-Muslim hate being spewed by rightwingers lately and to feel so helpless at stopping the spread of racist propaganda infecting every formerly-decent-seeming white person. 😭😭😭 Like, I can't believe it's gotten to the point where I as a Zohran Mamdani hater myself almost felt compelled to defend him (mainly defend the Muslims she's generalizing though) from the nonsensical arguments that Becky Weiss had been making to try to rile up more public hate and distrust for Americans of Muslim origin. 😢 Like what else were people expecting Mamdani to be sworn in on?! The Bible?! Because if he had, people, especially rightwingers would've still pointed out how meaningless it is for a politician who has grown up as a Muslim to be sworn in on a Christian book he doesn't believe in and imply he's dishonest for that reason. I know that Mamdani is a Hinduphobe anyway, but he'd have similarly gotten even worse racist comments if he'd sworn on one of the Hindu religious text due to his mother's religion, so he would've been criticized no matter what. There were so many racist comments on Becky Weiss's Instagram post, some of which were saying things like how "every politician should have to be sworn in on the Bible", while implying that those who did not grow up as Christian shouldn't be trusted to be politicians in the US. šŸ˜­šŸ¤¦ā€ā™€ļø And I don't understand still how even Becky Weiss, who had seemed so cool and normal before, had turned into a conservative Republican who is now also a Christian and who supports racist propaganda. :/ It makes me regret even trying to recruit lesbian women to Vexxed because I realized in the past few days that I was so wrong about the possibility of at least making Vexxed into a safe space for lesbian women. 😭 With people like owl lady and others increasingly ratcheting up hate and tension for basically every marginalized demographic of woman, at best, that site will only end up converting some lesbian women into white nationalists and at worse will probably end up pushing some of them into Christian conversion therapy or into radicalizing into the other direction of becoming hardcore TRAs once the hatred from conservatives makes them snap. Tbh half the time, when I see all the hatred in GC spaces like Vexxed, Ovarit, twitter, substack, etc, I feel like I'd rather be a TRA actually, because most of my TRA friends online have always been so kind to everyone and would never go along with hateful, racist, homophobic, xenophobic, misogynistic propaganda. Tbh, I really understand why most normal sane people would rather err on the side of "being kind" towards everyone, even if it means to them that they'd be giving the benefit of the doubt to criminals who happen to be TIMs when the opposing site is full of hateful vitriolic racist white-nationalist homophobes who have the most burning intense hatred towards anyone with a Muslim name. :/ It's so crazy.

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Jan 7 2026, 2:05 AM
#36
Firstly, thank you and I feel that. A lot.

However, I want to say, things are a looot more positive. What we need is to recreate left wing feminist spaces (Or at least nominally centrist spaces). And I feel like that on Tumblr GC, spaces like here and other newer places, we're on the way to doing that.

I think it's best to remember that GC did not grow up from conservative roots. It grew to what it is today, because it was a radical feminist LEFT WING space. There wasn't conservatism or Trump apologism on r/gendercritical, For me, and for many others, Magdalen Berns was probably the introduction to the issue at hand, and she was a left wing radical feminist (May she RIP). Rowling is a left wing feminist.

This is being co-opted by the right, but the right does not own it. Hopefully the new thing kicks off, I see huge potential, because GC views have grown because it was a welcoming place for all women without being cruel.

My prediction on that front is that America will U-Turn right back into TRA policies by 2028. There's what we as GC advocate for, and there's the performative cruelty on that front by Republicans.

Meanwhile, the UK which has not had GC pushed by the right will not experience this pushback imo. It's why success with right wingers (or left wingers) co-opting your campaign is temporary, as it leads to backlash later on. Real change is made by grassroots which are often left wing.

I don't think I'm eloquent enough to really put it into words, my main point is more, GC will shrivel in places where LGB people and anyone not strictly of a certain viewpoint can't feel safe. It will wither if the counter to TRA's is that we all need to just perform feminity harder. It will grow in places where GC is more like the r/gendercritical of old. It will grow when our counter to TRA's is that we can all be gender non-conforming and it doesn't matter, and you can't change sex or need to change sex regardless. Remember, while Vexxed and right wing spaces mostly post about TIM's, it's TIFs who need to be talked about, they are the majority of new transgender people and they need to be told, "It's fine to not want what comes with being a woman. You don't need to be gender conforming. You don't NEED to cake on makeup. You don't need to wear a bra that is uncomfortable for society. You don't need to have an operation." Sadly, on Vexxed, that is just not addressed, the focus is on TIMs and inducing rage. Meanwhile, in the UK, the focus is on single sex spaces and restricting access of blockers to teenage girls until they can live a few years and realise they don't need to do it.
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LeftFem
Jan 7 2026, 2:05 AM #36

Firstly, thank you and I feel that. A lot.

However, I want to say, things are a looot more positive. What we need is to recreate left wing feminist spaces (Or at least nominally centrist spaces). And I feel like that on Tumblr GC, spaces like here and other newer places, we're on the way to doing that.

I think it's best to remember that GC did not grow up from conservative roots. It grew to what it is today, because it was a radical feminist LEFT WING space. There wasn't conservatism or Trump apologism on r/gendercritical, For me, and for many others, Magdalen Berns was probably the introduction to the issue at hand, and she was a left wing radical feminist (May she RIP). Rowling is a left wing feminist.

This is being co-opted by the right, but the right does not own it. Hopefully the new thing kicks off, I see huge potential, because GC views have grown because it was a welcoming place for all women without being cruel.

My prediction on that front is that America will U-Turn right back into TRA policies by 2028. There's what we as GC advocate for, and there's the performative cruelty on that front by Republicans.

Meanwhile, the UK which has not had GC pushed by the right will not experience this pushback imo. It's why success with right wingers (or left wingers) co-opting your campaign is temporary, as it leads to backlash later on. Real change is made by grassroots which are often left wing.

I don't think I'm eloquent enough to really put it into words, my main point is more, GC will shrivel in places where LGB people and anyone not strictly of a certain viewpoint can't feel safe. It will wither if the counter to TRA's is that we all need to just perform feminity harder. It will grow in places where GC is more like the r/gendercritical of old. It will grow when our counter to TRA's is that we can all be gender non-conforming and it doesn't matter, and you can't change sex or need to change sex regardless. Remember, while Vexxed and right wing spaces mostly post about TIM's, it's TIFs who need to be talked about, they are the majority of new transgender people and they need to be told, "It's fine to not want what comes with being a woman. You don't need to be gender conforming. You don't NEED to cake on makeup. You don't need to wear a bra that is uncomfortable for society. You don't need to have an operation." Sadly, on Vexxed, that is just not addressed, the focus is on TIMs and inducing rage. Meanwhile, in the UK, the focus is on single sex spaces and restricting access of blockers to teenage girls until they can live a few years and realise they don't need to do it.

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Impress Polly
The kind they warned you about.
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Jan 18 2026, 8:49 AM
#37
(Jan 7 2026, 2:05 AM)LeftFem Firstly, thank you and I feel that. A lot.

However, I want to say, things are a looot more positive. What we need is to recreate left wing feminist spaces (Or at least nominally centrist spaces). And I feel like that on Tumblr GC, spaces like here and other newer places, we're on the way to doing that.

I think it's best to remember that GC did not grow up from conservative roots. It grew to what it is today, because it was a radical feminist LEFT WING space. There wasn't conservatism or Trump apologism on r/gendercritical, For me, and for many others, Magdalen Berns was probably the introduction to the issue at hand, and she was a left wing radical feminist (May she RIP). Rowling is a left wing feminist.

This is being co-opted by the right, but the right does not own it. Hopefully the new thing kicks off, I see huge potential, because GC views have grown because it was a welcoming place for all women without being cruel.

My prediction on that front is that America will U-Turn right back into TRA policies by 2028. There's what we as GC advocate for, and there's the performative cruelty on that front by Republicans.

Meanwhile, the UK which has not had GC pushed by the right will not experience this pushback imo. It's why success with right wingers (or left wingers) co-opting your campaign is temporary, as it leads to backlash later on. Real change is made by grassroots which are often left wing.

I don't think I'm eloquent enough to really put it into words, my main point is more, GC will shrivel in places where LGB people and anyone not strictly of a certain viewpoint can't feel safe. It will wither if the counter to TRA's is that we all need to just perform feminity harder. It will grow in places where GC is more like the r/gendercritical of old. It will grow when our counter to TRA's is that we can all be gender non-conforming and it doesn't matter, and you can't change sex or need to change sex regardless. Remember, while Vexxed and right wing spaces mostly post about TIM's, it's TIFs who need to be talked about, they are the majority of new transgender people and they need to be told, "It's fine to not want what comes with being a woman. You don't need to be gender conforming. You don't NEED to cake on makeup. You don't need to wear a bra that is uncomfortable for society. You don't need to have an operation." Sadly, on Vexxed, that is just not addressed, the focus is on TIMs and inducing rage. Meanwhile, in the UK, the focus is on single sex spaces and restricting access of blockers to teenage girls until they can live a few years and realise they don't need to do it.

As always, I have to preface all this by saying that I'm not on Vexxed myself, though thanks to it being discussed all the time here, I do lurk.Ā 

Anyway, I think you're very much on the right track here. While I definitely recognize the seriousness of what Trump represents, I'm not actually super worried that like he personally will succeed in remaking us into a fascist country or something. As you can see fromĀ the graph here below the list of recent polls (and this is the most conservative polling aggregator in America that I'm linking too, I might add), Trump is very unpopular and his level of public support is moving in only one direction over time. In fact, these job approval numbers are the worst any president save like Biden has ever had before at this stage of their term. Americans now lean toward wanting ICE abolishedĀ (50% of the women, 37% of the parasites according to that survey's demographic breakdown) and the Democrats now lead in party identification by a margin of 8 percentageĀ points, which is a bigger lead than they enjoyed even amidst the 2018 blue wave midterm election. To these ends, James Carville is predicting a Republican "wipeout" in the November elections and that, more specifically, "the Democrats are going to pick up at a minimum 25 [House] seats, maybe as high as 45. In all likelihood, the Democrats will carry the Senate". In other words, the Democrats appear poised to recapture not just one, but in fact both chambers of Congress this fall, which is an historical rarity. It's historically a rare thing for both chambers to flip from one party's control to the other's in the same election cycle, but that's looking like the most probable possibility at this moment. So that's how it's actually going in the court of public opinion right now. Perhaps most importantly of all though, the overall ideological lean of the nation is currently skewing the least conservative in the long history of Gallup polling on the subject, with 35% of Americans currently describing themselves as conservatives (a record low) and 28% describing themselves as liberals (a record high), making for a all-time low seven-point gap between the two. For perspective, a few decades ago, conservative Americans outnumbered liberal-identified ones by a margin of more than 2 to 1 in contemporaneous iterations of this same survey. What I am saying is that the cultural backlash isn't waiting in the wings, it's already here. The fact that white supremacist Nick Fuentes (the leader of the Groyper movement) has already endorsed likely 2028 Democratic Party nominee Gavin Newsom (because JD Vance's wife is a Hindu Indian-American) and Marjorie Taylor Greene has withdrawn her support for MAGA are symptoms of this fact, as are the sky high numbers of Republican members of Congress heading for the exits rather than trying to get re-elected. The recent off-year election results weren't an aberration.

For all the above reasons, I'm not too worried about like what will happen in November or what will happen in 2028, at least in the sense of like which party will win anyway. It will be the Democrats and probably by a good margin. I mean it hasn't even taken Trump one year in office this time to have a second George Floyd killing type national crisis. He's not good at this. He's not Putin. He's not Orban. He ain't no mastermind.Ā  From what I've read, even like his decision to kidnap Maduro was made only like ten days in advance because Maduro did the gay Trump dance and he felt mocked; his manhood challenged or something. He doesn't think things through to what say the political consequences of his actions will be. He's an old, senile, annoyingly extroverted narcissist who is completely at the mercy of his feelings. The masterminds of tyranny proceed more slowly and methodically than Trump, being careful to win over the public to each of their steps. Trump's own incompetence and lack of impulse control will be his political undoing.

It's more the long-term situation in this country that I'm worried about, not so much like us actually becoming a fascist police state right now. Liberalism in the abstract is enjoying a peak in popularity right now here in the U.S., but while history may rhyme with itself at many points, it never does actually repeat, so like the emerging wave of liberal politics today isn't quite the same as the last one, content-wise. I would argue that in some ways it's worse. Trans politics are seeing very little in the way of a comeback in popularity as part of the current liberal surge, but neither are feminist politics seeing much of a comeback that I've noticed. Instead, the future appears to belong to a liberal variety of men's rights activist. Gavin Newsom represents that, for example. In that sense, an election between JD Vance and Gavin Newson is only truly a difference of degrees, not so much of actual principles, when it comes to gender politics, and it's the emergence of that dynamic -- of sustained, universal masculinism emerging as part of the response to Trump's 2024 victory -- that truly worries me about the future. It's definitely the wrong range of debate to have in place. Like if both the left and right can agree that moids are oppressed by women and that raising the birth rate should be a national goal then we are in a shitload of trouble even if the Democrats stage a comeback. Feminist voices are being sidelined in the Democratic comeback because Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris were women and I fear the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" logic getting applied a bit too much by our movement to the point that we just accept that range of debate.

When it comes to trans politics...looking back at it now, I'm realizing how shockingly little I've had to say on the subject to date for being here on a GC feminist board! You're definitely right about gender criticism being foundationally a lesbian-led movement and that it's been of that character because the gender identity movement has nothing if not primarily victimized non-heterosexual girls and women in recent decades. Lesbians find ourselves at the center of the issue, facing the threat of social erasure. Erasing us from the pushback hence will not help the cultural salience thereof, needless to say!

These things said, I'm thinking maybe it is finally time for me to start a dedicated thread on the subject of the gender ID issue because I have my own take. I'd like to discuss why this phenomenon happened everywhere from here in the U.S. to Pakistan, yet not so much in a place like South Korea. In connection to my past-tense reference, I've noticed that there appears to be some receding -- some desisting going on in the "gender non-binary community" specifically -- of late that has dovetailed with a noteworthy percentage of so-called bi women reverting back to heterosexual public identification at the same time that lesbian and gay identification has not fallen. My basic theory of the case is that the Koreans had the Ditch the Corset movement against beauty culture and we had instead a marriage equality movement. They had a women's movement addressing the repressiveness of femininityĀ in the 2010s and we had a gay rights movement instead. There's definitely something to that difference in outcomes, IMO. I'd like to discuss that in a separate thread sometime. The British model of pushback was an interesting one too and at least partially successful! At the same time, I think it's been less interested inĀ challenging the underlying issue, which is beauty culture and femininity and instead hasĀ simply prescribed individual choice in, and non-judgment of, gender expression as the solution.
Edited Jan 19 2026, 8:18 PM by Impress Polly.
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Impress Polly
The kind they warned you about.
Jan 18 2026, 8:49 AM #37

(Jan 7 2026, 2:05 AM)LeftFem Firstly, thank you and I feel that. A lot.

However, I want to say, things are a looot more positive. What we need is to recreate left wing feminist spaces (Or at least nominally centrist spaces). And I feel like that on Tumblr GC, spaces like here and other newer places, we're on the way to doing that.

I think it's best to remember that GC did not grow up from conservative roots. It grew to what it is today, because it was a radical feminist LEFT WING space. There wasn't conservatism or Trump apologism on r/gendercritical, For me, and for many others, Magdalen Berns was probably the introduction to the issue at hand, and she was a left wing radical feminist (May she RIP). Rowling is a left wing feminist.

This is being co-opted by the right, but the right does not own it. Hopefully the new thing kicks off, I see huge potential, because GC views have grown because it was a welcoming place for all women without being cruel.

My prediction on that front is that America will U-Turn right back into TRA policies by 2028. There's what we as GC advocate for, and there's the performative cruelty on that front by Republicans.

Meanwhile, the UK which has not had GC pushed by the right will not experience this pushback imo. It's why success with right wingers (or left wingers) co-opting your campaign is temporary, as it leads to backlash later on. Real change is made by grassroots which are often left wing.

I don't think I'm eloquent enough to really put it into words, my main point is more, GC will shrivel in places where LGB people and anyone not strictly of a certain viewpoint can't feel safe. It will wither if the counter to TRA's is that we all need to just perform feminity harder. It will grow in places where GC is more like the r/gendercritical of old. It will grow when our counter to TRA's is that we can all be gender non-conforming and it doesn't matter, and you can't change sex or need to change sex regardless. Remember, while Vexxed and right wing spaces mostly post about TIM's, it's TIFs who need to be talked about, they are the majority of new transgender people and they need to be told, "It's fine to not want what comes with being a woman. You don't need to be gender conforming. You don't NEED to cake on makeup. You don't need to wear a bra that is uncomfortable for society. You don't need to have an operation." Sadly, on Vexxed, that is just not addressed, the focus is on TIMs and inducing rage. Meanwhile, in the UK, the focus is on single sex spaces and restricting access of blockers to teenage girls until they can live a few years and realise they don't need to do it.

As always, I have to preface all this by saying that I'm not on Vexxed myself, though thanks to it being discussed all the time here, I do lurk.Ā 

Anyway, I think you're very much on the right track here. While I definitely recognize the seriousness of what Trump represents, I'm not actually super worried that like he personally will succeed in remaking us into a fascist country or something. As you can see fromĀ the graph here below the list of recent polls (and this is the most conservative polling aggregator in America that I'm linking too, I might add), Trump is very unpopular and his level of public support is moving in only one direction over time. In fact, these job approval numbers are the worst any president save like Biden has ever had before at this stage of their term. Americans now lean toward wanting ICE abolishedĀ (50% of the women, 37% of the parasites according to that survey's demographic breakdown) and the Democrats now lead in party identification by a margin of 8 percentageĀ points, which is a bigger lead than they enjoyed even amidst the 2018 blue wave midterm election. To these ends, James Carville is predicting a Republican "wipeout" in the November elections and that, more specifically, "the Democrats are going to pick up at a minimum 25 [House] seats, maybe as high as 45. In all likelihood, the Democrats will carry the Senate". In other words, the Democrats appear poised to recapture not just one, but in fact both chambers of Congress this fall, which is an historical rarity. It's historically a rare thing for both chambers to flip from one party's control to the other's in the same election cycle, but that's looking like the most probable possibility at this moment. So that's how it's actually going in the court of public opinion right now. Perhaps most importantly of all though, the overall ideological lean of the nation is currently skewing the least conservative in the long history of Gallup polling on the subject, with 35% of Americans currently describing themselves as conservatives (a record low) and 28% describing themselves as liberals (a record high), making for a all-time low seven-point gap between the two. For perspective, a few decades ago, conservative Americans outnumbered liberal-identified ones by a margin of more than 2 to 1 in contemporaneous iterations of this same survey. What I am saying is that the cultural backlash isn't waiting in the wings, it's already here. The fact that white supremacist Nick Fuentes (the leader of the Groyper movement) has already endorsed likely 2028 Democratic Party nominee Gavin Newsom (because JD Vance's wife is a Hindu Indian-American) and Marjorie Taylor Greene has withdrawn her support for MAGA are symptoms of this fact, as are the sky high numbers of Republican members of Congress heading for the exits rather than trying to get re-elected. The recent off-year election results weren't an aberration.

For all the above reasons, I'm not too worried about like what will happen in November or what will happen in 2028, at least in the sense of like which party will win anyway. It will be the Democrats and probably by a good margin. I mean it hasn't even taken Trump one year in office this time to have a second George Floyd killing type national crisis. He's not good at this. He's not Putin. He's not Orban. He ain't no mastermind.Ā  From what I've read, even like his decision to kidnap Maduro was made only like ten days in advance because Maduro did the gay Trump dance and he felt mocked; his manhood challenged or something. He doesn't think things through to what say the political consequences of his actions will be. He's an old, senile, annoyingly extroverted narcissist who is completely at the mercy of his feelings. The masterminds of tyranny proceed more slowly and methodically than Trump, being careful to win over the public to each of their steps. Trump's own incompetence and lack of impulse control will be his political undoing.

It's more the long-term situation in this country that I'm worried about, not so much like us actually becoming a fascist police state right now. Liberalism in the abstract is enjoying a peak in popularity right now here in the U.S., but while history may rhyme with itself at many points, it never does actually repeat, so like the emerging wave of liberal politics today isn't quite the same as the last one, content-wise. I would argue that in some ways it's worse. Trans politics are seeing very little in the way of a comeback in popularity as part of the current liberal surge, but neither are feminist politics seeing much of a comeback that I've noticed. Instead, the future appears to belong to a liberal variety of men's rights activist. Gavin Newsom represents that, for example. In that sense, an election between JD Vance and Gavin Newson is only truly a difference of degrees, not so much of actual principles, when it comes to gender politics, and it's the emergence of that dynamic -- of sustained, universal masculinism emerging as part of the response to Trump's 2024 victory -- that truly worries me about the future. It's definitely the wrong range of debate to have in place. Like if both the left and right can agree that moids are oppressed by women and that raising the birth rate should be a national goal then we are in a shitload of trouble even if the Democrats stage a comeback. Feminist voices are being sidelined in the Democratic comeback because Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris were women and I fear the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" logic getting applied a bit too much by our movement to the point that we just accept that range of debate.

When it comes to trans politics...looking back at it now, I'm realizing how shockingly little I've had to say on the subject to date for being here on a GC feminist board! You're definitely right about gender criticism being foundationally a lesbian-led movement and that it's been of that character because the gender identity movement has nothing if not primarily victimized non-heterosexual girls and women in recent decades. Lesbians find ourselves at the center of the issue, facing the threat of social erasure. Erasing us from the pushback hence will not help the cultural salience thereof, needless to say!

These things said, I'm thinking maybe it is finally time for me to start a dedicated thread on the subject of the gender ID issue because I have my own take. I'd like to discuss why this phenomenon happened everywhere from here in the U.S. to Pakistan, yet not so much in a place like South Korea. In connection to my past-tense reference, I've noticed that there appears to be some receding -- some desisting going on in the "gender non-binary community" specifically -- of late that has dovetailed with a noteworthy percentage of so-called bi women reverting back to heterosexual public identification at the same time that lesbian and gay identification has not fallen. My basic theory of the case is that the Koreans had the Ditch the Corset movement against beauty culture and we had instead a marriage equality movement. They had a women's movement addressing the repressiveness of femininityĀ in the 2010s and we had a gay rights movement instead. There's definitely something to that difference in outcomes, IMO. I'd like to discuss that in a separate thread sometime. The British model of pushback was an interesting one too and at least partially successful! At the same time, I think it's been less interested inĀ challenging the underlying issue, which is beauty culture and femininity and instead hasĀ simply prescribed individual choice in, and non-judgment of, gender expression as the solution.

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Jan 18 2026, 3:05 PM
#38
Amazing comment, I'll look forward to reading it when you made those posts on Gender ID!
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LeftFem
Jan 18 2026, 3:05 PM #38

Amazing comment, I'll look forward to reading it when you made those posts on Gender ID!

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Impress Polly
The kind they warned you about.
188
Jan 18 2026, 7:42 PM
#39
(Jan 18 2026, 3:05 PM)LeftFem Amazing comment, I'll look forward to reading it when you made those posts on Gender ID!

Thanx!Ā Ā :catblush:

I'm debating whether to merge the topic into a commentary on the subject of mirroring since mirroring was also popularized by South Korean feminists around the same time during the 2010s or just have it be a separate topic. I think there's a lot we could learn from what they did in and around the mid to late 2010s in general. I hype it a lot for a reason.
Edited Jan 18 2026, 7:46 PM by Impress Polly.
Impress Polly
The kind they warned you about.
Jan 18 2026, 7:42 PM #39

(Jan 18 2026, 3:05 PM)LeftFem Amazing comment, I'll look forward to reading it when you made those posts on Gender ID!

Thanx!Ā Ā :catblush:

I'm debating whether to merge the topic into a commentary on the subject of mirroring since mirroring was also popularized by South Korean feminists around the same time during the 2010s or just have it be a separate topic. I think there's a lot we could learn from what they did in and around the mid to late 2010s in general. I hype it a lot for a reason.

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