News Walmart fires woman who reported anti-trans threats from man in bathroom
News Walmart fires woman who reported anti-trans threats from man in bathroom
Mar 31 2025, 9:34 AM
https://archive.ph/sjEIx
Actual woman who is 6'4" and was threatened by a man.
I worry about anti-trans sentiment/activism taking a turn to where it harms women more than helps them.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2025/03/27/walmart-fires-woman-trans-hate-bathroom/
https://archive.ph/sjEIx
Actual woman who is 6'4" and was threatened by a man.
I worry about anti-trans sentiment/activism taking a turn to where it harms women more than helps them.
Mar 31 2025, 12:34 PM
There are some instances where it's obvious as fuck. I think women have a right to call that out. But if someone is unsure, like, just leave people alone unless they actually do something.
A lot of the comments on Ovarit fucked me up a lot because some of those women sound like they'd come after ME and think im a man. And I'm not even close to being *that* tall for a woman! They hyperfocused so hard on every teeny tiny physical feature that could be considered "masculine" and then on top of that, even hyperfocused on personality traits they deemed "male brained" that if they ever had an in person meet up, theres no way I'd ever attend. I'm positive they'd harass me for not looking and acting feminine enough.
Edited Mar 31 2025, 12:36 PM by skunk.
Same. I am not an fan of transvestigating and personally believe that if a woman sees someone that maybe could possibly be a male in the womens bathroom, I think she should leave them be. If they're being weird, gross, harassing someone, etc they should be reported regardless of their sex or suspected sex.
There are some instances where it's obvious as fuck. I think women have a right to call that out. But if someone is unsure, like, just leave people alone unless they actually do something.
A lot of the comments on Ovarit fucked me up a lot because some of those women sound like they'd come after ME and think im a man. And I'm not even close to being *that* tall for a woman! They hyperfocused so hard on every teeny tiny physical feature that could be considered "masculine" and then on top of that, even hyperfocused on personality traits they deemed "male brained" that if they ever had an in person meet up, theres no way I'd ever attend. I'm positive they'd harass me for not looking and acting feminine enough.
Mar 31 2025, 2:05 PM
(Mar 31 2025, 12:34 PM)skunk A lot of the comments on Ovarit fucked me up a lot because some of those women sound like they'd come after ME and think im a man. And I'm not even close to being *that* tall for a woman! They hyperfocused so hard on every teeny tiny physical feature that could be considered "masculine" and then on top of that, even hyperfocused on personality traits they deemed "male brained" that if they ever had an in person meet up, theres no way I'd ever attend. I'm positive they'd harass me for not looking and acting feminine enough.
Yeah... same. I'm barely above average for a woman, but I've got a mannish stance or face or something 😂 to where I get "sir"ed or "them"ed by service workers every now and then, so the transvestigating stuff definitely makes me feel gross about my appearance, doubly so knowing it's coming from supposedly fellow feminists instead of the patriarchy. And that's ignoring the gross racial and obligatory-gender-conforming themes that tend to pop up in this.
I think we can keep sex-segregated spaces sex-segregated without needing to creepily obsess over everyone who's maybe possibly not a woman. The idea that we can ~*~*~*always tell*~*~*~ is kind of harmful; I think women do tend to have a better eye for it than men, but obsessing over a person's body ratios or if that's a hint of an Adam's apple is so unproductive, unhelpful, and hurtful.
I don't know how people here on clovenhooves feel about actively policing bathroom spaces? I think keeping sex-segregated spaces is important - I've personally benefited from the safety aspect of having women-only restrooms before - but I think there are some exceptions where I don't care if a man is in that space, like maybe a father with a daughter who's too young to be alone but too old to go with him in the men's room or if the men's room is entirely out of order. In cases where I've encountered that, the man didn't linger and wasn't weird about it, and I didn't care that he was briefly in the space.
If a man is being a blatant creep or just giving me a really bad gut feeling, I'd say something to management, but I generally try not to look at other people in restrooms, anyway, so if a trans woman is just passing through I'm probably not even going to notice, and I'm certainly not going to waste time wondering if a tall woman is a secret man.
Edited Mar 31 2025, 2:06 PM by VerdantHorizon.
VerdantHorizon
Mar 31 2025, 2:05 PM #3(Mar 31 2025, 12:34 PM)skunk A lot of the comments on Ovarit fucked me up a lot because some of those women sound like they'd come after ME and think im a man. And I'm not even close to being *that* tall for a woman! They hyperfocused so hard on every teeny tiny physical feature that could be considered "masculine" and then on top of that, even hyperfocused on personality traits they deemed "male brained" that if they ever had an in person meet up, theres no way I'd ever attend. I'm positive they'd harass me for not looking and acting feminine enough.
Yeah... same. I'm barely above average for a woman, but I've got a mannish stance or face or something 😂 to where I get "sir"ed or "them"ed by service workers every now and then, so the transvestigating stuff definitely makes me feel gross about my appearance, doubly so knowing it's coming from supposedly fellow feminists instead of the patriarchy. And that's ignoring the gross racial and obligatory-gender-conforming themes that tend to pop up in this.
I think we can keep sex-segregated spaces sex-segregated without needing to creepily obsess over everyone who's maybe possibly not a woman. The idea that we can ~*~*~*always tell*~*~*~ is kind of harmful; I think women do tend to have a better eye for it than men, but obsessing over a person's body ratios or if that's a hint of an Adam's apple is so unproductive, unhelpful, and hurtful.
I don't know how people here on clovenhooves feel about actively policing bathroom spaces? I think keeping sex-segregated spaces is important - I've personally benefited from the safety aspect of having women-only restrooms before - but I think there are some exceptions where I don't care if a man is in that space, like maybe a father with a daughter who's too young to be alone but too old to go with him in the men's room or if the men's room is entirely out of order. In cases where I've encountered that, the man didn't linger and wasn't weird about it, and I didn't care that he was briefly in the space.
If a man is being a blatant creep or just giving me a really bad gut feeling, I'd say something to management, but I generally try not to look at other people in restrooms, anyway, so if a trans woman is just passing through I'm probably not even going to notice, and I'm certainly not going to waste time wondering if a tall woman is a secret man.
Mar 31 2025, 7:13 PM
Quote:Davis said she also heard a woman’s voice, which appeared to be of the man’s partner, urging him to get out and warning that he would get in trouble. The man was “yelling about how he was going to get all of them and protect her,” Davis said.
Yeah this is why I don't trust most "gender critical" men at all. They're going to "protect us" from the TIMs by attacking tall women and butch lesbians. We can't solve men in women's spaces by adding more men to the situation. Now instead of just TIMs in the bathrooms we have to worry about TIMs and also crazy MAGA dudes transvestigating everyone. Progress!
(Mar 31 2025, 12:34 PM)skunk A lot of the comments on Ovarit fucked me up a lot because some of those women sound like they'd come after ME and think im a man. And I'm not even close to being *that* tall for a woman! They hyperfocused so hard on every teeny tiny physical feature that could be considered "masculine" and then on top of that, even hyperfocused on personality traits they deemed "male brained" that if they ever had an in person meet up, theres no way I'd ever attend. I'm positive they'd harass me for not looking and acting feminine enough.I'm too lazy to go find the receipts but I've seen some comments on Ovarit about how "real women" would NEVER EVER EVER play violent video games or watch horror movies. Literal TRA logic, Animal Crossing is yonic and S.T.A.L.K.E.R is phallic.
Quote:Davis said she also heard a woman’s voice, which appeared to be of the man’s partner, urging him to get out and warning that he would get in trouble. The man was “yelling about how he was going to get all of them and protect her,” Davis said.
Yeah this is why I don't trust most "gender critical" men at all. They're going to "protect us" from the TIMs by attacking tall women and butch lesbians. We can't solve men in women's spaces by adding more men to the situation. Now instead of just TIMs in the bathrooms we have to worry about TIMs and also crazy MAGA dudes transvestigating everyone. Progress!
(Mar 31 2025, 12:34 PM)skunk A lot of the comments on Ovarit fucked me up a lot because some of those women sound like they'd come after ME and think im a man. And I'm not even close to being *that* tall for a woman! They hyperfocused so hard on every teeny tiny physical feature that could be considered "masculine" and then on top of that, even hyperfocused on personality traits they deemed "male brained" that if they ever had an in person meet up, theres no way I'd ever attend. I'm positive they'd harass me for not looking and acting feminine enough.I'm too lazy to go find the receipts but I've seen some comments on Ovarit about how "real women" would NEVER EVER EVER play violent video games or watch horror movies. Literal TRA logic, Animal Crossing is yonic and S.T.A.L.K.E.R is phallic.
komorebi
“I am not free while any woman is unfree, even when her shackles are very different from my own.” – Audre Lorde
“I am not free while any woman is unfree, even when her shackles are very different from my own.” – Audre Lorde
320
Mar 31 2025, 9:22 PM
(Mar 31 2025, 12:34 PM)skunk A lot of the comments on Ovarit fucked me up a lot because some of those women sound like they'd come after ME and think im a man. And I'm not even close to being *that* tall for a woman! They hyperfocused so hard on every teeny tiny physical feature that could be considered "masculine" and then on top of that, even hyperfocused on personality traits they deemed "male brained" that if they ever had an in person meet up, theres no way I'd ever attend. I'm positive they'd harass me for not looking and acting feminine enough.
This happens to me all the time. I must preface what I'm about to say by noting that I of course don't think that butches are "asking for it" or that they "deserve it." No woman should be harassed in the bathroom for their appearance. I mention that just because I myself don't actively aim for a "butch" aesthetic or anything; I simply have short hair and I'm tall. (Not even that tall, either—I'm 5'8".) Yet I am often "sir"red and have been harassed in the women's bathroom.
Getting missexed doesn't bother me, but the harassment can be scary because I'm not sure if it's going to escalate or not. I actually have a bunch of funny stories about this, including the time a male steward on an airline seemed terrified I was a gender special and kept calling the woman sitting next to me "ma'am" while nervously avoiding any gendered forms of address for me. 😆 I didn't realize it at the time, it only occurred to me later that that was probably why he was acting weird.
Anyway, to me, this is just evidence that the people who are supposedly trying to "protect women's bathrooms" are really just trying to narrow the acceptable range of gender nonconformity in women, including physical features that we can't even control. The posts on Ovarit on this topic where they talk about "man hands" or Adam's apples or how you can "just tell" demonstrate as much. Like, sorry to break it to you gals, but even if a woman has big hands, she's still a woman. And even if a dude has small hands, he's still a dude. Just come out and say what you really think about unfeminine women, why don't you.
(Mar 31 2025, 7:13 PM)Possum I'm too lazy to go find the receipts but I've seen some comments on Ovarit about how "real women" would NEVER EVER EVER play violent video games or watch horror movies. Literal TRA logic, Animal Crossing is yonic and S.T.A.L.K.E.R is phallic.
I definitely saw at least one post about this. Some of the least self-aware people on the planet tbh. Calling themselves "gender critical" while literally enforcing gender lmao. Then they'll say, "do words have meaning anymore?" Idk girl you tell me 💀
(Mar 31 2025, 12:34 PM)skunk A lot of the comments on Ovarit fucked me up a lot because some of those women sound like they'd come after ME and think im a man. And I'm not even close to being *that* tall for a woman! They hyperfocused so hard on every teeny tiny physical feature that could be considered "masculine" and then on top of that, even hyperfocused on personality traits they deemed "male brained" that if they ever had an in person meet up, theres no way I'd ever attend. I'm positive they'd harass me for not looking and acting feminine enough.
This happens to me all the time. I must preface what I'm about to say by noting that I of course don't think that butches are "asking for it" or that they "deserve it." No woman should be harassed in the bathroom for their appearance. I mention that just because I myself don't actively aim for a "butch" aesthetic or anything; I simply have short hair and I'm tall. (Not even that tall, either—I'm 5'8".) Yet I am often "sir"red and have been harassed in the women's bathroom.
Getting missexed doesn't bother me, but the harassment can be scary because I'm not sure if it's going to escalate or not. I actually have a bunch of funny stories about this, including the time a male steward on an airline seemed terrified I was a gender special and kept calling the woman sitting next to me "ma'am" while nervously avoiding any gendered forms of address for me. 😆 I didn't realize it at the time, it only occurred to me later that that was probably why he was acting weird.
Anyway, to me, this is just evidence that the people who are supposedly trying to "protect women's bathrooms" are really just trying to narrow the acceptable range of gender nonconformity in women, including physical features that we can't even control. The posts on Ovarit on this topic where they talk about "man hands" or Adam's apples or how you can "just tell" demonstrate as much. Like, sorry to break it to you gals, but even if a woman has big hands, she's still a woman. And even if a dude has small hands, he's still a dude. Just come out and say what you really think about unfeminine women, why don't you.
(Mar 31 2025, 7:13 PM)Possum I'm too lazy to go find the receipts but I've seen some comments on Ovarit about how "real women" would NEVER EVER EVER play violent video games or watch horror movies. Literal TRA logic, Animal Crossing is yonic and S.T.A.L.K.E.R is phallic.
I definitely saw at least one post about this. Some of the least self-aware people on the planet tbh. Calling themselves "gender critical" while literally enforcing gender lmao. Then they'll say, "do words have meaning anymore?" Idk girl you tell me 💀
Apr 1 2025, 5:51 AM
For example: one of the things she claimed was that when she was fired she had to turn in her company phone, but was not a keyholder or manager so there was no way she would have had a company phone to begin with. That seems like a small thing to nit-pick about, I know. But it really made me raise my eyebrow when I was reading her talking about the event. Secondly, if something like this had happened, she would have had to immediately file a report with the store's security staff member. There is always a member of security on-site during store hours and the shift manager/store manager would have been present for this process.
I also checked her profile and she had posted a lot of very pro-trans rhetoric previously, so my initial reaction was that she was probably fired for a different reason or had been more or less on the chopping block for awhile and this was an excuse to finally throw the hammer down. Walmart offering to reinstate her employment is also odd to me, because I have never heard of them doing that, and the claim that they are trying to reinstate her with back pay has not been confirmed by Walmart, and again, that isn't something that I have ever personally heard of from that particular company.
I don't know, this all strikes me as quite odd and is making me give bombastic side-eye. Maybe I am jaded, but this feels performative.
So this one is weird because I actually saw Dani's original Facebook post where she explained the event and firing and a lot of what she said didn't make a ton of sense to me when I originally read it.
For example: one of the things she claimed was that when she was fired she had to turn in her company phone, but was not a keyholder or manager so there was no way she would have had a company phone to begin with. That seems like a small thing to nit-pick about, I know. But it really made me raise my eyebrow when I was reading her talking about the event. Secondly, if something like this had happened, she would have had to immediately file a report with the store's security staff member. There is always a member of security on-site during store hours and the shift manager/store manager would have been present for this process.
I also checked her profile and she had posted a lot of very pro-trans rhetoric previously, so my initial reaction was that she was probably fired for a different reason or had been more or less on the chopping block for awhile and this was an excuse to finally throw the hammer down. Walmart offering to reinstate her employment is also odd to me, because I have never heard of them doing that, and the claim that they are trying to reinstate her with back pay has not been confirmed by Walmart, and again, that isn't something that I have ever personally heard of from that particular company.
I don't know, this all strikes me as quite odd and is making me give bombastic side-eye. Maybe I am jaded, but this feels performative.
Apr 1 2025, 8:55 AM
As for what Leithriel said, I worked for a brewery that got smeared for "transphobia" because a transman (who I knew from working at another brewery, who was a real corporate shill in punky packaging) had previously been fired from their establishment and the owner wasn't fawningly pro-trans enough, so the transphobia story got circulated with credibility. The real reason she had been fired was for no-call, no-showing for like a full week or two of work, something egregious like that, right after training. The owner assumed she was no longer interested, and was (perhaps rightfully) unimpressed when she called to beg for her job back. This story obviously painted her in an unfavourable light, so I'm skeptical when any labour or employment tales are involved. It's a demonstrably easy way to spin the narrative so it garners sympathy.
To Komorebi's point and the points before her, what worries me more and more these days about "left" gender ideology is how it is just loading up "right" gender ideology with ammunition. By being just as detached from reality as The Old Way, trans faces the same fundamental problem as any reactionary ideology: it only offers opportunities to create conflict, not to create a meaningful path forward. Both sides want everyone who steps even a little bit out of line to be called into question. One side causes chaos and confusion (arguably intentionally) so the other can cinch the knot tighter, like a finger-trap Overton window. The two extremes are inherently irrational, so it leaves all of us vulnerable in the more ambiguous reality we have to live in.
As for what Leithriel said, I worked for a brewery that got smeared for "transphobia" because a transman (who I knew from working at another brewery, who was a real corporate shill in punky packaging) had previously been fired from their establishment and the owner wasn't fawningly pro-trans enough, so the transphobia story got circulated with credibility. The real reason she had been fired was for no-call, no-showing for like a full week or two of work, something egregious like that, right after training. The owner assumed she was no longer interested, and was (perhaps rightfully) unimpressed when she called to beg for her job back. This story obviously painted her in an unfavourable light, so I'm skeptical when any labour or employment tales are involved. It's a demonstrably easy way to spin the narrative so it garners sympathy.
Apr 1 2025, 11:22 AM
(Mar 31 2025, 9:22 PM)komorebi(Mar 31 2025, 12:34 PM)skunk A lot of the comments on Ovarit fucked me up a lot because some of those women sound like they'd come after ME and think im a man. And I'm not even close to being *that* tall for a woman! They hyperfocused so hard on every teeny tiny physical feature that could be considered "masculine" and then on top of that, even hyperfocused on personality traits they deemed "male brained" that if they ever had an in person meet up, theres no way I'd ever attend. I'm positive they'd harass me for not looking and acting feminine enough.
This happens to me all the time. I must preface what I'm about to say by noting that I of course don't think that butches are "asking for it" or that they "deserve it." No woman should be harassed in the bathroom for their appearance. I mention that just because I myself don't actively aim for a "butch" aesthetic or anything; I simply have short hair and I'm tall. (Not even that tall, either—I'm 5'8".) Yet I am often "sir"red and have been harassed in the women's bathroom.
Getting missexed doesn't bother me, but the harassment can be scary because I'm not sure if it's going to escalate or not. I actually have a bunch of funny stories about this, including the time a male steward on an airline seemed terrified I was a gender special and kept calling the woman sitting next to me "ma'am" while nervously avoiding any gendered forms of address for me. 😆 I didn't realize it at the time, it only occurred to me later that that was probably why he was acting weird.
Anyway, to me, this is just evidence that the people who are supposedly trying to "protect women's bathrooms" are really just trying to narrow the acceptable range of gender nonconformity in women, including physical features that we can't even control. The posts on Ovarit on this topic where they talk about "man hands" or Adam's apples or how you can "just tell" demonstrate as much. Like, sorry to break it to you gals, but even if a woman has big hands, she's still a woman. And even if a dude has small hands, he's still a dude. Just come out and say what you really think about unfeminine women, why don't you.
(Mar 31 2025, 7:13 PM)Possum I'm too lazy to go find the receipts but I've seen some comments on Ovarit about how "real women" would NEVER EVER EVER play violent video games or watch horror movies. Literal TRA logic, Animal Crossing is yonic and S.T.A.L.K.E.R is phallic.
I definitely saw at least one post about this. Some of the least self-aware people on the planet tbh. Calling themselves "gender critical" while literally enforcing gender lmao. Then they'll say, "do words have meaning anymore?" Idk girl you tell me 💀
They said that crap a lot in the gaming circle. I always pushed back and let them know I'm a pro at headshots in battlefield or something like that lol. Some agreed women play all kinds of games but so many of them kind of othered me by telling me it's rare for women to enjoy violent video games so it's totally ok for them to make generalizations like "women always prefer nonviolent soft games cause we're just inherently not evil like that 💅". I found it so insulting 🥲
(Mar 31 2025, 9:22 PM)komorebi(Mar 31 2025, 12:34 PM)skunk A lot of the comments on Ovarit fucked me up a lot because some of those women sound like they'd come after ME and think im a man. And I'm not even close to being *that* tall for a woman! They hyperfocused so hard on every teeny tiny physical feature that could be considered "masculine" and then on top of that, even hyperfocused on personality traits they deemed "male brained" that if they ever had an in person meet up, theres no way I'd ever attend. I'm positive they'd harass me for not looking and acting feminine enough.
This happens to me all the time. I must preface what I'm about to say by noting that I of course don't think that butches are "asking for it" or that they "deserve it." No woman should be harassed in the bathroom for their appearance. I mention that just because I myself don't actively aim for a "butch" aesthetic or anything; I simply have short hair and I'm tall. (Not even that tall, either—I'm 5'8".) Yet I am often "sir"red and have been harassed in the women's bathroom.
Getting missexed doesn't bother me, but the harassment can be scary because I'm not sure if it's going to escalate or not. I actually have a bunch of funny stories about this, including the time a male steward on an airline seemed terrified I was a gender special and kept calling the woman sitting next to me "ma'am" while nervously avoiding any gendered forms of address for me. 😆 I didn't realize it at the time, it only occurred to me later that that was probably why he was acting weird.
Anyway, to me, this is just evidence that the people who are supposedly trying to "protect women's bathrooms" are really just trying to narrow the acceptable range of gender nonconformity in women, including physical features that we can't even control. The posts on Ovarit on this topic where they talk about "man hands" or Adam's apples or how you can "just tell" demonstrate as much. Like, sorry to break it to you gals, but even if a woman has big hands, she's still a woman. And even if a dude has small hands, he's still a dude. Just come out and say what you really think about unfeminine women, why don't you.
(Mar 31 2025, 7:13 PM)Possum I'm too lazy to go find the receipts but I've seen some comments on Ovarit about how "real women" would NEVER EVER EVER play violent video games or watch horror movies. Literal TRA logic, Animal Crossing is yonic and S.T.A.L.K.E.R is phallic.
I definitely saw at least one post about this. Some of the least self-aware people on the planet tbh. Calling themselves "gender critical" while literally enforcing gender lmao. Then they'll say, "do words have meaning anymore?" Idk girl you tell me 💀
They said that crap a lot in the gaming circle. I always pushed back and let them know I'm a pro at headshots in battlefield or something like that lol. Some agreed women play all kinds of games but so many of them kind of othered me by telling me it's rare for women to enjoy violent video games so it's totally ok for them to make generalizations like "women always prefer nonviolent soft games cause we're just inherently not evil like that 💅". I found it so insulting 🥲
Apr 1 2025, 5:54 PM
(Apr 1 2025, 11:22 AM)skunk(Mar 31 2025, 9:22 PM)komorebi(Mar 31 2025, 12:34 PM)skunk A lot of the comments on Ovarit fucked me up a lot because some of those women sound like they'd come after ME and think im a man. And I'm not even close to being *that* tall for a woman! They hyperfocused so hard on every teeny tiny physical feature that could be considered "masculine" and then on top of that, even hyperfocused on personality traits they deemed "male brained" that if they ever had an in person meet up, theres no way I'd ever attend. I'm positive they'd harass me for not looking and acting feminine enough.
This happens to me all the time. I must preface what I'm about to say by noting that I of course don't think that butches are "asking for it" or that they "deserve it." No woman should be harassed in the bathroom for their appearance. I mention that just because I myself don't actively aim for a "butch" aesthetic or anything; I simply have short hair and I'm tall. (Not even that tall, either—I'm 5'8".) Yet I am often "sir"red and have been harassed in the women's bathroom.
Getting missexed doesn't bother me, but the harassment can be scary because I'm not sure if it's going to escalate or not. I actually have a bunch of funny stories about this, including the time a male steward on an airline seemed terrified I was a gender special and kept calling the woman sitting next to me "ma'am" while nervously avoiding any gendered forms of address for me. 😆 I didn't realize it at the time, it only occurred to me later that that was probably why he was acting weird.
Anyway, to me, this is just evidence that the people who are supposedly trying to "protect women's bathrooms" are really just trying to narrow the acceptable range of gender nonconformity in women, including physical features that we can't even control. The posts on Ovarit on this topic where they talk about "man hands" or Adam's apples or how you can "just tell" demonstrate as much. Like, sorry to break it to you gals, but even if a woman has big hands, she's still a woman. And even if a dude has small hands, he's still a dude. Just come out and say what you really think about unfeminine women, why don't you.
(Mar 31 2025, 7:13 PM)Possum I'm too lazy to go find the receipts but I've seen some comments on Ovarit about how "real women" would NEVER EVER EVER play violent video games or watch horror movies. Literal TRA logic, Animal Crossing is yonic and S.T.A.L.K.E.R is phallic.
I definitely saw at least one post about this. Some of the least self-aware people on the planet tbh. Calling themselves "gender critical" while literally enforcing gender lmao. Then they'll say, "do words have meaning anymore?" Idk girl you tell me 💀
They said that crap a lot in the gaming circle. I always pushed back and let them know I'm a pro at headshots in battlefield or something like that lol. Some agreed women play all kinds of games but so many of them kind of othered me by telling me it's rare for women to enjoy violent video games so it's totally ok for them to make generalizations like "women always prefer nonviolent soft games cause we're just inherently not evil like that 💅". I found it so insulting 🥲
I started gaming in the old BBS days, but then I found telnet and MUDS! MUDs were basically D&D online. Text based, multiplayer mayhem. No one ever believed I was a woman.
(Apr 1 2025, 11:22 AM)skunk(Mar 31 2025, 9:22 PM)komorebi(Mar 31 2025, 12:34 PM)skunk A lot of the comments on Ovarit fucked me up a lot because some of those women sound like they'd come after ME and think im a man. And I'm not even close to being *that* tall for a woman! They hyperfocused so hard on every teeny tiny physical feature that could be considered "masculine" and then on top of that, even hyperfocused on personality traits they deemed "male brained" that if they ever had an in person meet up, theres no way I'd ever attend. I'm positive they'd harass me for not looking and acting feminine enough.
This happens to me all the time. I must preface what I'm about to say by noting that I of course don't think that butches are "asking for it" or that they "deserve it." No woman should be harassed in the bathroom for their appearance. I mention that just because I myself don't actively aim for a "butch" aesthetic or anything; I simply have short hair and I'm tall. (Not even that tall, either—I'm 5'8".) Yet I am often "sir"red and have been harassed in the women's bathroom.
Getting missexed doesn't bother me, but the harassment can be scary because I'm not sure if it's going to escalate or not. I actually have a bunch of funny stories about this, including the time a male steward on an airline seemed terrified I was a gender special and kept calling the woman sitting next to me "ma'am" while nervously avoiding any gendered forms of address for me. 😆 I didn't realize it at the time, it only occurred to me later that that was probably why he was acting weird.
Anyway, to me, this is just evidence that the people who are supposedly trying to "protect women's bathrooms" are really just trying to narrow the acceptable range of gender nonconformity in women, including physical features that we can't even control. The posts on Ovarit on this topic where they talk about "man hands" or Adam's apples or how you can "just tell" demonstrate as much. Like, sorry to break it to you gals, but even if a woman has big hands, she's still a woman. And even if a dude has small hands, he's still a dude. Just come out and say what you really think about unfeminine women, why don't you.
(Mar 31 2025, 7:13 PM)Possum I'm too lazy to go find the receipts but I've seen some comments on Ovarit about how "real women" would NEVER EVER EVER play violent video games or watch horror movies. Literal TRA logic, Animal Crossing is yonic and S.T.A.L.K.E.R is phallic.
I definitely saw at least one post about this. Some of the least self-aware people on the planet tbh. Calling themselves "gender critical" while literally enforcing gender lmao. Then they'll say, "do words have meaning anymore?" Idk girl you tell me 💀
They said that crap a lot in the gaming circle. I always pushed back and let them know I'm a pro at headshots in battlefield or something like that lol. Some agreed women play all kinds of games but so many of them kind of othered me by telling me it's rare for women to enjoy violent video games so it's totally ok for them to make generalizations like "women always prefer nonviolent soft games cause we're just inherently not evil like that 💅". I found it so insulting 🥲
I started gaming in the old BBS days, but then I found telnet and MUDS! MUDs were basically D&D online. Text based, multiplayer mayhem. No one ever believed I was a woman.
Apr 6 2025, 1:54 PM
(Mar 31 2025, 9:34 AM)Elsacat I worry about anti-trans sentiment/activism taking a turn to where it harms women more than helps them.
Taking a turn? It's already happening. Of course it's already happening. People will always seek a way to make anything gender-related fit in with patriarchal oppression than actually think outside the box. It's how we got to "showing a middle finger to gender roles" being a movement for self-hating women into self-harming and NotLikeOtherGirls-ing, and also ended up with conservaturds appropriating genuine concerns over female safety and spaces into another marketing ploy for their male protection racket.
(Mar 31 2025, 12:34 PM)skunk Same. I am not an fan of transvestigating and personally believe that if a woman sees someone that maybe could possibly be a male in the womens bathroom, I think she should leave them be. If they're being weird, gross, harassing someone, etc they should be reported regardless of their sex or suspected sex.I really disagree because men should not be in women's spaces, period. They consistently show themselves unable to behave normally around women, and they shouldn't be given endless benefit of a doubt until they inevitably cause shit and make women uncomfortable or harmed to get thrown out.
We might make very specific exceptions sometimes when life happens (I've seen gendered bathrooms kinda be ignored in small clubs where everyone is crowded together with friends, for example) but the general sentiment should absolutely stand.
(Mar 31 2025, 2:05 PM)VerdantHorizon I think we can keep sex-segregated spaces sex-segregated without needing to creepily obsess over everyone who's maybe possibly not a womanWe can. In a normal world we'd have IDs that accurately reflect one's sex, and any doubts could be resolved that way. Also, in a normal world, being mistaken for the opposite sex wouldn't be some kind of a grave insult like it's treated now.
Quote:The idea that we can ~*~*~*always tell*~*~*~ is kind of harmful; I think women do tend to have a better eye for it than men, but obsessing over a person's body ratios or if that's a hint of an Adam's apple is so unproductive, unhelpful, and hurtful.
I agree. It's especially absurd in regards to TIFs, who have a way easier time passing (also women making themselves invisible is not exactly anything unusual) but also because it's so irrelevant. Fooling people that you're the opposite sex doesn't actually make you the opposite sex, nor does it erase the decades of gendered socialisation you've been subject to since birth.
(Mar 31 2025, 7:13 PM)Possum I'm too lazy to go find the receipts but I've seen some comments on Ovarit about how "real women" would NEVER EVER EVER play violent video games or watch horror movies. Literal TRA logic, Animal Crossing is yonic and S.T.A.L.K.E.R is phallic.It is very dependent on context. The fact is that gender roles force us into specific preferences, sometimes by lowering the likelihood of even just having a neutral interest due to lack of encouraging environment or straight up hostility, and sometimes by the fact that some of this content appeals to male supremacist attitudes that women are really only going to be drawn to if they're particularly committed to OneOfTheBoys roleplaying, in other words deluded enough to think they'll reap benefits if they virtue-signal being cool with misogyny and other forms of male depravity.
I remember an Ovarit thread talking about how men tend to like sadistic violent games, and so many responses were missing the point and rushing in to mention that actually, they enjoy violent media because they're interested in the dark side of the human psyche or sth and that's just not what the person was talking about. It wasn't about how any shred of violence in games could appeal solely to men, it was specifically about games that get men to simulate (often in company of other men via streams) their sociopathic, sadistic fantasies over women and minorities, and having a bunch of women come in to say that they find violence and moral corruption make for interesting storytelling isn't actually addressing that point. It's really only addressing the most surface-level idea that violent content is completely offputting to women.
It reminds me of how someone would address men's fetishistic, male-supremacist brutalising porn and then libfems would rush in to say that actually, they have bodice-ripper rape fantasies too and idk, an ice kink because they played with ice cubes during sex once, so how dare you think this guy who jerks off to beheadings of women might be a ticking time bomb? The comparison isn't even close, but it's all grouped into this "kinks and sex positivity" category that makes it impossible to actually talk about any real distinctions. Like, I'm sure that there might be some normies who consume fundamentalist extremist Christian or Muslim content out of morbid curiosity, but let's not even pretend who it's actually for and what you're actually supposed to get out of it and why it overwhelmingly draws a specific audience.
The problem is that these conversations tend to be overly simplified, specifically when your community is rife with conservaturds (like Ovarit's was) whose main point of unity is that women are saintly motherly Madonnas except when it comes to those silly whipper-snapper kids who should shut up and always submit to their authority. It reminds me of seeing liberals talk about gender nonconformity in TIMs on the most surface-level imaginable: a guy puts lipstick on and that's omg so feminist yassQueen pink-brained even though he's only doing it so he could jerk off with his bros on 4chan. Or TIFs talking about how very NotLikeOtherGirls they are because they hate dresses, all while being shrinking violets trying to disappear and being men's cheerleaders. It's the most superficial approach imaginable to gender roles, and also why it's so difficult to really address the problems with trans activism. The gendered patterns hold beyond just who's wearing makeup and who's wearing pants. But because most people can't think beyond that (partially because the sheer extent of how much we're influenced on such subtle levels is uncomfortable to grasp), it gets reduced to makeup=pink brained, eww makeup=one of the boys.
(Mar 31 2025, 9:22 PM)komorebi Getting missexed doesn't bother me, but the harassment can be scary because I'm not sure if it's going to escalate or not. I actually have a bunch of funny stories about this
I'm curious to hear more of that, though I wonder if we should just make a thread for it in the GNC section of the forum? I myself constantly get mistaken for male, but it never lead to truly uncomfortable situations.
Edited Apr 6 2025, 8:07 PM by YesYourNigel.
YesYourNigel
Apr 6 2025, 1:54 PM #10(Mar 31 2025, 9:34 AM)Elsacat I worry about anti-trans sentiment/activism taking a turn to where it harms women more than helps them.
Taking a turn? It's already happening. Of course it's already happening. People will always seek a way to make anything gender-related fit in with patriarchal oppression than actually think outside the box. It's how we got to "showing a middle finger to gender roles" being a movement for self-hating women into self-harming and NotLikeOtherGirls-ing, and also ended up with conservaturds appropriating genuine concerns over female safety and spaces into another marketing ploy for their male protection racket.
(Mar 31 2025, 12:34 PM)skunk Same. I am not an fan of transvestigating and personally believe that if a woman sees someone that maybe could possibly be a male in the womens bathroom, I think she should leave them be. If they're being weird, gross, harassing someone, etc they should be reported regardless of their sex or suspected sex.I really disagree because men should not be in women's spaces, period. They consistently show themselves unable to behave normally around women, and they shouldn't be given endless benefit of a doubt until they inevitably cause shit and make women uncomfortable or harmed to get thrown out.
We might make very specific exceptions sometimes when life happens (I've seen gendered bathrooms kinda be ignored in small clubs where everyone is crowded together with friends, for example) but the general sentiment should absolutely stand.
(Mar 31 2025, 2:05 PM)VerdantHorizon I think we can keep sex-segregated spaces sex-segregated without needing to creepily obsess over everyone who's maybe possibly not a womanWe can. In a normal world we'd have IDs that accurately reflect one's sex, and any doubts could be resolved that way. Also, in a normal world, being mistaken for the opposite sex wouldn't be some kind of a grave insult like it's treated now.
Quote:The idea that we can ~*~*~*always tell*~*~*~ is kind of harmful; I think women do tend to have a better eye for it than men, but obsessing over a person's body ratios or if that's a hint of an Adam's apple is so unproductive, unhelpful, and hurtful.
I agree. It's especially absurd in regards to TIFs, who have a way easier time passing (also women making themselves invisible is not exactly anything unusual) but also because it's so irrelevant. Fooling people that you're the opposite sex doesn't actually make you the opposite sex, nor does it erase the decades of gendered socialisation you've been subject to since birth.
(Mar 31 2025, 7:13 PM)Possum I'm too lazy to go find the receipts but I've seen some comments on Ovarit about how "real women" would NEVER EVER EVER play violent video games or watch horror movies. Literal TRA logic, Animal Crossing is yonic and S.T.A.L.K.E.R is phallic.It is very dependent on context. The fact is that gender roles force us into specific preferences, sometimes by lowering the likelihood of even just having a neutral interest due to lack of encouraging environment or straight up hostility, and sometimes by the fact that some of this content appeals to male supremacist attitudes that women are really only going to be drawn to if they're particularly committed to OneOfTheBoys roleplaying, in other words deluded enough to think they'll reap benefits if they virtue-signal being cool with misogyny and other forms of male depravity.
I remember an Ovarit thread talking about how men tend to like sadistic violent games, and so many responses were missing the point and rushing in to mention that actually, they enjoy violent media because they're interested in the dark side of the human psyche or sth and that's just not what the person was talking about. It wasn't about how any shred of violence in games could appeal solely to men, it was specifically about games that get men to simulate (often in company of other men via streams) their sociopathic, sadistic fantasies over women and minorities, and having a bunch of women come in to say that they find violence and moral corruption make for interesting storytelling isn't actually addressing that point. It's really only addressing the most surface-level idea that violent content is completely offputting to women.
It reminds me of how someone would address men's fetishistic, male-supremacist brutalising porn and then libfems would rush in to say that actually, they have bodice-ripper rape fantasies too and idk, an ice kink because they played with ice cubes during sex once, so how dare you think this guy who jerks off to beheadings of women might be a ticking time bomb? The comparison isn't even close, but it's all grouped into this "kinks and sex positivity" category that makes it impossible to actually talk about any real distinctions. Like, I'm sure that there might be some normies who consume fundamentalist extremist Christian or Muslim content out of morbid curiosity, but let's not even pretend who it's actually for and what you're actually supposed to get out of it and why it overwhelmingly draws a specific audience.
The problem is that these conversations tend to be overly simplified, specifically when your community is rife with conservaturds (like Ovarit's was) whose main point of unity is that women are saintly motherly Madonnas except when it comes to those silly whipper-snapper kids who should shut up and always submit to their authority. It reminds me of seeing liberals talk about gender nonconformity in TIMs on the most surface-level imaginable: a guy puts lipstick on and that's omg so feminist yassQueen pink-brained even though he's only doing it so he could jerk off with his bros on 4chan. Or TIFs talking about how very NotLikeOtherGirls they are because they hate dresses, all while being shrinking violets trying to disappear and being men's cheerleaders. It's the most superficial approach imaginable to gender roles, and also why it's so difficult to really address the problems with trans activism. The gendered patterns hold beyond just who's wearing makeup and who's wearing pants. But because most people can't think beyond that (partially because the sheer extent of how much we're influenced on such subtle levels is uncomfortable to grasp), it gets reduced to makeup=pink brained, eww makeup=one of the boys.
(Mar 31 2025, 9:22 PM)komorebi Getting missexed doesn't bother me, but the harassment can be scary because I'm not sure if it's going to escalate or not. I actually have a bunch of funny stories about this
I'm curious to hear more of that, though I wonder if we should just make a thread for it in the GNC section of the forum? I myself constantly get mistaken for male, but it never lead to truly uncomfortable situations.
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