(Apr 13 2025, 9:46 AM)Shroom (Apr 12 2025, 12:14 PM)YesYourNigel But it's telling that I've never heard a single TIF talk about "transmisandry".
It's telling, yes, but not for the reasons you think: TIFs who've realized they unfortunately can't escape misogyny (even if they don't think it's that and try to process it through trans terminology and logic) by identifying out of being a woman have actually been trying to talk about their experiences, but 1) not enough of them are willing to confront this so it's a comparatively small group, and 2) TIMs have been pushing back hard when they do.
The other reason you haven't heard about is because TIFs have chosen to call it "transandrophobia" instead. (Probably because nerdy women seem love making up new words based on Greco-Roman linguistics as much as they love turning civil rights movements into fandoms: see also "sapphic", "achillean", etc. The Greek Mythology Obsession from high school never truly goes away does it?)
Anyway, if you're (or anyone else is) interested in looking into this, I think (as for anything) hearing the discussion from the horse's mouth is the best way to go about it. I also think Pillarsalt (my favorite radblog ^^) has a great, succinct analysis of the backlash.
Oh my go....AAAAAAAH! One thread among the ones you linked got under my skin so much
https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/1dlocf6/comment/l9qtzr5/ It really showcases how desperately these women are trying to recognise the oppression they experience but constantly hitting a TIM-reinforced wall and being told to grovel before male feelings.
The examples of transandrophobia, apparently:
Quote:Women in the past not being allowed to wear (purposefully more comfortable) clothes associated with the opposite sex
Thankfully only a problem if they're NotLikeOtherGirls who have a boysoul compeling them to, otherwise, stick to your corsets and dresses or face prison, ladies.
Quote:TIFs facing high rates of sexual and domestic violence
YOU MEAN WOMEN'S RATES??! It's so embarrassing when these people need to affirm gendersouls while also recognising the elephant in the room of gendersouls being worth jackshit. And then you ofc get some TIFs who are like "I don't need any of that help because I'm not even a woman, and that affirms my gendersoul", which OP even acknowledges, but ofc as example of society letting TIFs down instead of TIFs being funamentally rooted in self-delusion about their state as the oppressed class and using delusions of privilege for self-affirmation.
Quote:Having the highest poverty/suicide rate
The movement literally targets vulnerable chronically online autistic girls and women to sell them the idea that they can escape their oppression (marketed ofc as a vague metaphysical inexplainable sense of "dysphoria" that's more palatable to women in denial than "Hey the whole society and the men around you are exploiting you and putting you on a high-speed train to AbuseTown") through extensive and expensive drugs and surgeries that they are told they cannot live without, the whole concept of dysphoria is internal and rooted in supposedly suicidal inability to accept one's (biologically unchangeable) sex, the whole movement romanticises suicidal ideation as proof of TruTrans, discourages any kind of psychological help as "conversion therapy" if it doesn't affirm your need for said drugs and surgeries, and advocates chronic lying to themselves and others to maintain the delusion.
But also, why do you think TIFs, despite being able to pass a lot better, still don't end up with all that juicy male privilege? Shouldn't they be getting all the money, power and attention that men are getting? Why do you think they don't?
"Transphob..."
Shh, nonono, if it was transphobia, TIMs would be affected, too. Why only women? Why? Why do you think that is?
"Uhh...I know, transandrophobia!"
🤦
Quote:facing reproductive coercion/ being forced into pregnancy to force detransition
Ah yes, women being raped, entrapped by pregnancy and treated as breeding stock is truly a special form of oppression that TIFs experience. Also, pregnancy to force detransition...wat? Well, either way I'm sure TERFs are behind it.
Quote:and then being denied space in the Pro choice movement
OMF...You're the one insisting the misogyny you experience is super special and unique and different, and then complaining that your patriarchal delusions and denial are not given enough attention in movements that exist to address the fucking misogyny you're experiencing! Jesus, the mental gymnastics that women go through just to avoid addressing the elephant in the room and accepting the fact that the society that's raised them actually hates their guts! It's the same with tradwives whining about how feminism is so bad but also doesn't do enough for them. Fuck you.
Most others are basically "It's such discrimination that the medical establishment isn't roleplaying that my vagina is an extra asshole, they're killing me because I refuse to be misgendered in that way!". Boo-fucking-hoo.
Quote:Being erased from history
Women being erased from history? Yaaawn. Ohwait, they have a boysoul. THIS IS AN INJUSTICE!!! ✊
Quote:we are misgendered in death
gee, funny that people and the media will walk on eggshells so much around TIMs and yet no-one gives a shit about how women identify. I wonder why 🤔🤔🤔 Must just be that general sense of transphobia, hyuck! I just can't see any other patterns that would make people prioritise male feelings so consistently over female ones. Nope, none.
Also sorry that magical gendersoul isn't visible to anyone but you, I guess.
Quote:until recently like cis women we couldn't have our own bank accounts
WHAT? You mean roleplaying didn't actually give you special NotLikeOtherGirls status with all the misogyny that other basic bitches have to deal with revoked? This is an outrage! This is a travesty! Denying financial independence to women is one thing, but stopping NotLikeOtherGirls from opting out of it is a human rights abuse of the highest order!!!
Quote:it's being erased and then being told that it's a privilege to not know that trans men existed or that trans men in history existed
In other words, women making themselves disappear and thinking they got a one-up on the patriarchy that way, because you get less abuse if you draw less attention to yourself in a patriarchal system.
Also, you're so desperately trying to make women's ability to pass better as the opposite sex seem bad, when you privileged women can never comprehend the depths of pain that TIMs go through, who have to both deal with not passing as women and not being seen as women, and on top of that also being treated with all the misogyny that women get....uh...wait a second...
Quote:nobody cares it's actually easier for you to be trans because nobody cares about women being masculine and everyone thinks it's good actually despite this very much not being the case
Because you say so? No, really, why do you think that is? Why do you think that, even when women hide and downplay themselves and wear neutral clothes, that instead of getting attention and respect, they get filed away in the "unfuckable" category and ignored while men take up everyone's attention and sympathy? Do you ever think about any of this stuff, or do you just say "Well that's not how it is because I'm oppressed" and just leave it at that?
Quote:people making assumptions about how our bodies look & function sexually
I'm sorry for assuming you shit out of your super special second asshole, that was very uneducated of me 🙏
Quote:There's the assumption that no trans men have penises or that if we do you can tell them apart from cis ones and they are "non functional" /unable to get erect or feel sensation
I'm not even going to go into the fact that a saggy roll of skin over your clit is in no way a penis, but riddle me this: why is a man's inverted penis seen as the genuine article, i.e. the genuine vagina, despite not even being close, and yet a roll of skin is seen as comical fakery? Could there possibly be a mysteriously motivated amount of ignorance about female biology compared to male that TIMs are profiting off of? 🤔
Quote:being predators towards cis gay men or straight women or trans women and Nonbinary people
I'm sorry, sweaty, I know being a predator must be very gendersoul-affirming for you, but you can't seriously tell me TIFs are the face of predation over TIMs so maybe check your matriarchal privilege and sit down.
Quote:it's being treated like your existence as a trans man is stealing your body as property from other people - from cis men and women who could want to date or impregnate you
Women being valued solely as breeding stock for prospective men? Must be transphobia!
And while certainly many women will push these norms onto other women, radical feminists telling you not to amputate and atrophy your organs so as not to be treated as a subhuman sex object are not trying to impregnate you, they are trying to keep you from destroying your health for the sake of patriarchal approval. Maybe actually listen to the arguments people have instead of just grouping them as evil bigots who are all evil because they're not validating your gendersoul.
Quote:from even some fellow trans people who can't see past their own dysphoria and tell you that you're ungrateful & are giving away breasts and organs they wish they were born with
Men not giving a shit about what you want and objectifying you as a collection of porny body parts? Gee I wonder why I never see TIFs have that resentment towards TIMs 🤔 (though no doubt some will try to roleplay it if enough people start talking about it. Hey TIFs: artificially acting out a role to prove you have a dudebrain is different from actual men subconsciously doing male shit even when they identify as women because they're MEN. It's especially ironic to try to do it by imitating TIMs)
I don't know how these people go through life acting so shocked at every predictable display of male shittiness every time that is bound to happen because of how the patriarchy works.
Quote:For BIMOC it's being more unsafe in public with police profiling and having white tears used against you and people more willing to believe the woman who is harassing or abusing you is the victim because she's White
Oh thank you, thank you so much for making sure white women are the real problem and the real cause of racism 🙏 And thank you for recognising that black TIFs are persecuted for blackdoubleassholephobia instead of racism or racism+misogyny. No one is talking enough about this!
Quote:It's losing friends who seemed supportive until you started growing a beard and then the rug is pulled out from under you and you're told that you don't need friends or social spaces because you're a man now while most cis men exclude you too
Whoa hol' up there, sister! I don't like you putting a little bit of a spotlight there on men, even if just as an afterthought. Sounds like misandry to me. I think it'd be better if we focused on how other women in your life didn't validate your gendersoul as much as they were supposed to while you kept pining after the attention of all those distant bros who will surely accept you as OneOfTheBoys one day.
Quote:the more masculine you look and the more assertive you are about not being misgendered or sexually harassed the more you're treated like a monster/predator
I mean...either you're experiencing the consequences of male supremacist systems creating and rewarding monstrous male behaviour, and the assumption that this applies to you as well if you pass well enough, or you don't pass and people just think you're a crazy unhinged woman. It's the transmisogyny paradox: TIMs are either experiencing homophobia if they don't pass, or misogyny if they do pass. Or an additional comparison: just because some straight people can suffer consequences for being assumed gay, does not mean homophobia targets straight people nor that straight people are experiencing a special new kind of oppression called heterohomophobia.
Quote:Every term that people have chosen has been written off as "problematic no you can't use that word just shut up and stop talking about it
Men shutting women up and completely dominating the culture I WONDER WHAT THE PATTERN HERE COULD POSSIBLY BE HMMMM 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Quote:Trans women who've stood in solidarity with us and backed us up have been misgendered and accused of being men or told to shut up
The selfaware TIMs who realised that shitting on women is maybe a bad look for their gendersoul so they give you a token little disclaimer? lmao, don't forget to give them a space for what poor victims they are!
Quote:There's also crypto terfs trying to jump into the shitshow and recruit isolated trans men and then people seeing that happen and seeing trans guys and transmascs warning each other and turning round and victim blaming us for these transphobes who want to groom and detransition (and often also assault) us
Oh no, I've heard of this: the kabal of rich white middle-aged radical feminists who groom and sexually assault TIFs by getting them to wake up from their self-harming trans pursuits (no, I've actually heard a couple of TIFs literally say this). I'm so glad it's TERFs who are the cause of all that rape and domestic violence that TIFs experience! If it weren't for TERFs, their rates would be the same as men's, surely! That's why it's transandrophobia and not misogyny!
I swear, these people are incapable of connecting the dots. They see these really blatant examples of misogyny but, because their trans pins say they're not women, they perform these batshit mental gymnastics to say that, ackshully, this is a completely new, as-of-yet-undiscovered form of oppression that no-one's been able to explain yet! 🤓 It's misogyny! It's fucking misogyny, how are you not seeing it? Oppression isn't just collecting random uncomfy experiences that someone just happens to experience and then calling your little collection doubleassholephobia. Oppression is actual supremacism and abuse that are logically consistent throughout all these examples. Instead here it's like "Well TIMs get more attention here and here and here and we're raped and impregnated and abused here and here and here and I just have NO IDEA whatsoever why that might be happening, none, nadda, nooo clue why TIMs just so happen to coincidentally get privileges over TIFs, so I think I'll just call this baffling mysterious phenomenon "transandrophobia" 🤓 It's just a string of coincidences to collect, but not explain in any logically consistent way.
They will keep themselves in a state of neverending stupidity, denial and delusion, and then act betrayed that the movement that exists to address the oppression they're experiencing isn't doing enough to address their fantastical NotLikeOtherMisogy that just so happens to work identically to misogyny. It reminds me of the Pikachu face tradwives make when they realise their "protectors" hate their guts, even when they do everything right and throw enough of other women under the bus. When it turns out they still get the same shit sandwich as the rest of us, they go all "Woe is me, I'm so opressed by NotLikeOtherMisogyny except unlike those cis bitches who feel gender-affirmed by their misogyny, no one is willing to call my oppression by a more gendersoul-affirming name 😢
I refuse to debate two obvious facts: 1. the patriarchy exists 2. and that's a bad thing
