clovenhooves The Personal Is Political Gender Critical Gender Nonconformity GNC as a fashion statement

GNC as a fashion statement

GNC as a fashion statement

 
Jul 25 2024, 1:10 PM
#1
One way in which I notice that liberal feminism and beauty culture work together, and are crowned by trans activism, is by treating "masculine" and butch women as essentially a fashion statement (one that still gets targeted with varying degrees of feminisation for that reason and ofc because of misogyny, but I digress). This plays into a specific brand of individualism that liberals like very much - everyone is an island and the real oppression is merely in criticising someone's life choices, which are purely individual, inborn and unchangeable, and as a result, attacking said choices is akin to attacking the individual themselves. Femme women are born liking pink, and they, against all odds and everything we know about how society works, completely individually keep rediscovering femininity independent of societal pressures, and all happen to lean towards one particular colour preference through sheer happenstance (and also I guess also purely by coincidence happen to have the same patterns of trauma and insecurities over not achieving that completely individual standard, frequently to the point of mental illness 🤔).

Liberals begrudgingly accept that some women are weirdos who didn't get the memo that they're supposed to be feminine, probably because they're a bit messed up in the head, but they are certainly not as high up on the liberal oppression pole as conventionally attractive feminine women, or men with violent misogynistic fetishes. Or, we can make this GNC lifestyle even less political - being femme or butch is not even about having certain inborn preferences - it's all about harmless fashion styles, something to experiment with, or simply the way you like to present, and something anyone can opt into or out of, like gender.

This attitude not only avoids pointing out the problems with femininity, but also acts like you need to have this integral specific preference for this other "fashion style" in order to justify taking it on. So for femininity to be rejected, the fashion/appearance/presentation/identity (note the progression, and how that factors into libfem/trans worldview) of GNC needs to resonate with you personally and naturally, in a world where women have been told their life this makes them unlovable, gross, unappealing. The fact that femininity harms women is not seen as a good enough reason to distance onerself from it, because liberal feminism refuses to acknowledge femininity as harmful to women. Even saying so gets you accused of misogyny, since according to liberal feminism, the real victims of misogyny and patriarchy are not women, but femininity itself. And that's how you end up with nonsense like the idea that "femme-presenting people" are victimised by misogyny. For liberals, it's all about "people" being persecuted by prudes and close-minded bigots for any random preferences and lifestyle, such as the choice of what clothes they put on. And this is placed in the wider liberal persecution complex, right alongside shaming men for being pedos, or shaming harmful misogynistic kinks.

Being GNC is not some special identity, it's a rejection of femininity that is harmful to women.
Edited Jul 25 2024, 1:14 PM by YesYourNigel.

I refuse to debate two obvious facts: 1. the patriarchy exists 2. and that's a bad thing
YesYourNigel
Jul 25 2024, 1:10 PM #1

One way in which I notice that liberal feminism and beauty culture work together, and are crowned by trans activism, is by treating "masculine" and butch women as essentially a fashion statement (one that still gets targeted with varying degrees of feminisation for that reason and ofc because of misogyny, but I digress). This plays into a specific brand of individualism that liberals like very much - everyone is an island and the real oppression is merely in criticising someone's life choices, which are purely individual, inborn and unchangeable, and as a result, attacking said choices is akin to attacking the individual themselves. Femme women are born liking pink, and they, against all odds and everything we know about how society works, completely individually keep rediscovering femininity independent of societal pressures, and all happen to lean towards one particular colour preference through sheer happenstance (and also I guess also purely by coincidence happen to have the same patterns of trauma and insecurities over not achieving that completely individual standard, frequently to the point of mental illness 🤔).

Liberals begrudgingly accept that some women are weirdos who didn't get the memo that they're supposed to be feminine, probably because they're a bit messed up in the head, but they are certainly not as high up on the liberal oppression pole as conventionally attractive feminine women, or men with violent misogynistic fetishes. Or, we can make this GNC lifestyle even less political - being femme or butch is not even about having certain inborn preferences - it's all about harmless fashion styles, something to experiment with, or simply the way you like to present, and something anyone can opt into or out of, like gender.

This attitude not only avoids pointing out the problems with femininity, but also acts like you need to have this integral specific preference for this other "fashion style" in order to justify taking it on. So for femininity to be rejected, the fashion/appearance/presentation/identity (note the progression, and how that factors into libfem/trans worldview) of GNC needs to resonate with you personally and naturally, in a world where women have been told their life this makes them unlovable, gross, unappealing. The fact that femininity harms women is not seen as a good enough reason to distance onerself from it, because liberal feminism refuses to acknowledge femininity as harmful to women. Even saying so gets you accused of misogyny, since according to liberal feminism, the real victims of misogyny and patriarchy are not women, but femininity itself. And that's how you end up with nonsense like the idea that "femme-presenting people" are victimised by misogyny. For liberals, it's all about "people" being persecuted by prudes and close-minded bigots for any random preferences and lifestyle, such as the choice of what clothes they put on. And this is placed in the wider liberal persecution complex, right alongside shaming men for being pedos, or shaming harmful misogynistic kinks.

Being GNC is not some special identity, it's a rejection of femininity that is harmful to women.


I refuse to debate two obvious facts: 1. the patriarchy exists 2. and that's a bad thing

Mar 31 2026, 8:32 PM
#2
(Jul 25 2024, 1:10 PM)YesYourNigel One way in which I notice that liberal feminism and beauty culture work together, and are crowned by trans activism, is by treating "masculine" and butch women as essentially a fashion statement (one that still gets targeted with varying degrees of feminisation for that reason and ofc because of misogyny, but I digress). This plays into a specific brand of individualism that liberals like very much - everyone is an island and the real oppression is merely in criticising someone's life choices, which are purely individual, inborn and unchangeable, and as a result, attacking said choices is akin to attacking the individual themselves. Femme women are born liking pink, and they, against all odds and everything we know about how society works, completely individually keep rediscovering femininity independent of societal pressures, and all happen to lean towards one particular colour preference through sheer happenstance (and also I guess also purely by coincidence happen to have the same patterns of trauma and insecurities over not achieving that completely individual standard, frequently to the point of mental illness 🤔).

Liberals begrudgingly accept that some women are weirdos who didn't get the memo that they're supposed to be feminine, probably because they're a bit messed up in the head, but they are certainly not as high up on the liberal oppression pole as conventionally attractive feminine women, or men with violent misogynistic fetishes. Or, we can make this GNC lifestyle even less political - being femme or butch is not even about having certain inborn preferences - it's all about harmless fashion styles, something to experiment with, or simply the way you like to present, and something anyone can opt into or out of, like gender.

This attitude not only avoids pointing out the problems with femininity, but also acts like you need to have this integral specific preference for this other "fashion style" in order to justify taking it on. So for femininity to be rejected, the fashion/appearance/presentation/identity (note the progression, and how that factors into libfem/trans worldview) of GNC needs to resonate with you personally and naturally, in a world where women have been told their life this makes them unlovable, gross, unappealing. The fact that femininity harms women is not seen as a good enough reason to distance onerself from it, because liberal feminism refuses to acknowledge femininity as harmful to women. Even saying so gets you accused of misogyny, since according to liberal feminism, the real victims of misogyny and patriarchy are not women, but femininity itself. And that's how you end up with nonsense like the idea that "femme-presenting people" are victimised by misogyny. For liberals, it's all about "people" being persecuted by prudes and close-minded bigots for any random preferences and lifestyle, such as the choice of what clothes they put on. And this is placed in the wider liberal persecution complex, right alongside shaming men for being pedos, or shaming harmful misogynistic kinks.

Being GNC is not some special identity, it's a rejection of femininity that is harmful to women.

I agree being feminine is harmful to women and the fact that it's normalised and women are encouraged to be feminine ruins women mental health. I think when some people say GNC is a fashion choice they mean that they like mens fashion or fashion that lacks femininity but if they mean personality wise then probably not, since you can't rlly control what personality you have. 

I think people have both feminine and masculine traits so I think it's hard to conform to femininity anyways, plus alot of feminine standards of behaviour and dress are very unnatural and by default I think most women aren't that feminine if they don't doll themselves up and behave in a performative manner. 

Ironically with people who complain about gender neutral clothing being men's clothing doesn't make any sense since men's clothes is actually the default if you think about it, it's more comfortable, breathable and you can move around and aren't restricted. Womens clothes should be designed like mens clothing but ofc smaller and to fit somewhat differently since women aren't as tall and big as men but sadly the world sees women as decorations and don't care about comfort, alot of women's clothes that are fashionable aren't practical or comfortable.
Greenonion45
Mar 31 2026, 8:32 PM #2

(Jul 25 2024, 1:10 PM)YesYourNigel One way in which I notice that liberal feminism and beauty culture work together, and are crowned by trans activism, is by treating "masculine" and butch women as essentially a fashion statement (one that still gets targeted with varying degrees of feminisation for that reason and ofc because of misogyny, but I digress). This plays into a specific brand of individualism that liberals like very much - everyone is an island and the real oppression is merely in criticising someone's life choices, which are purely individual, inborn and unchangeable, and as a result, attacking said choices is akin to attacking the individual themselves. Femme women are born liking pink, and they, against all odds and everything we know about how society works, completely individually keep rediscovering femininity independent of societal pressures, and all happen to lean towards one particular colour preference through sheer happenstance (and also I guess also purely by coincidence happen to have the same patterns of trauma and insecurities over not achieving that completely individual standard, frequently to the point of mental illness 🤔).

Liberals begrudgingly accept that some women are weirdos who didn't get the memo that they're supposed to be feminine, probably because they're a bit messed up in the head, but they are certainly not as high up on the liberal oppression pole as conventionally attractive feminine women, or men with violent misogynistic fetishes. Or, we can make this GNC lifestyle even less political - being femme or butch is not even about having certain inborn preferences - it's all about harmless fashion styles, something to experiment with, or simply the way you like to present, and something anyone can opt into or out of, like gender.

This attitude not only avoids pointing out the problems with femininity, but also acts like you need to have this integral specific preference for this other "fashion style" in order to justify taking it on. So for femininity to be rejected, the fashion/appearance/presentation/identity (note the progression, and how that factors into libfem/trans worldview) of GNC needs to resonate with you personally and naturally, in a world where women have been told their life this makes them unlovable, gross, unappealing. The fact that femininity harms women is not seen as a good enough reason to distance onerself from it, because liberal feminism refuses to acknowledge femininity as harmful to women. Even saying so gets you accused of misogyny, since according to liberal feminism, the real victims of misogyny and patriarchy are not women, but femininity itself. And that's how you end up with nonsense like the idea that "femme-presenting people" are victimised by misogyny. For liberals, it's all about "people" being persecuted by prudes and close-minded bigots for any random preferences and lifestyle, such as the choice of what clothes they put on. And this is placed in the wider liberal persecution complex, right alongside shaming men for being pedos, or shaming harmful misogynistic kinks.

Being GNC is not some special identity, it's a rejection of femininity that is harmful to women.

I agree being feminine is harmful to women and the fact that it's normalised and women are encouraged to be feminine ruins women mental health. I think when some people say GNC is a fashion choice they mean that they like mens fashion or fashion that lacks femininity but if they mean personality wise then probably not, since you can't rlly control what personality you have. 

I think people have both feminine and masculine traits so I think it's hard to conform to femininity anyways, plus alot of feminine standards of behaviour and dress are very unnatural and by default I think most women aren't that feminine if they don't doll themselves up and behave in a performative manner. 

Ironically with people who complain about gender neutral clothing being men's clothing doesn't make any sense since men's clothes is actually the default if you think about it, it's more comfortable, breathable and you can move around and aren't restricted. Womens clothes should be designed like mens clothing but ofc smaller and to fit somewhat differently since women aren't as tall and big as men but sadly the world sees women as decorations and don't care about comfort, alot of women's clothes that are fashionable aren't practical or comfortable.

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