clovenhooves The Personal Is Political General Article Young men and women are taking the 'gender gap' to staggering new levels

Article Young men and women are taking the 'gender gap' to staggering new levels

Article Young men and women are taking the 'gender gap' to staggering new levels

 
Apr 30 2025, 12:57 PM
#1
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/young-men-women-are-taking-poll-gender-gap-staggering-new-levels-rcna202672

I hate that even politics is becoming further gendered now. Female = left of "right", male = "right, and probably then some"

Anything that becomes strongly associated with "female" seems to become devalued, in any culture, so this has some worrying implications.
Elsacat
Apr 30 2025, 12:57 PM #1

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/young-men-women-are-taking-poll-gender-gap-staggering-new-levels-rcna202672

I hate that even politics is becoming further gendered now. Female = left of "right", male = "right, and probably then some"

Anything that becomes strongly associated with "female" seems to become devalued, in any culture, so this has some worrying implications.

Apr 30 2025, 12:59 PM
#2
More drilldown on this:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/steve-kornacki-white-men-white-women-gap-gender-gap-rcna196791

"New NBC News polling data illustrates the cultural and political gulf separating white men without college degrees and white women with college degrees"
Elsacat
Apr 30 2025, 12:59 PM #2

More drilldown on this:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/steve-kornacki-white-men-white-women-gap-gender-gap-rcna196791

"New NBC News polling data illustrates the cultural and political gulf separating white men without college degrees and white women with college degrees"

Apr 30 2025, 1:12 PM
#3
I am amazed at how many people still had a positive view of him in March.
amareldys
Apr 30 2025, 1:12 PM #3

I am amazed at how many people still had a positive view of him in March.

May 1 2025, 10:10 PM
#4
YouTube. Instagram. TikTok. 

Gamers and influencers.

We were promised space flight and we got armies of narcissists advertising clichés and garbage to our kids.

(I am old enough that Generation Z is “our kids”)
Edited May 1 2025, 10:11 PM by wormwood.
wormwood
May 1 2025, 10:10 PM #4

YouTube. Instagram. TikTok. 

Gamers and influencers.

We were promised space flight and we got armies of narcissists advertising clichés and garbage to our kids.

(I am old enough that Generation Z is “our kids”)

May 2 2025, 6:01 AM
#5
It pisses me off when women not wanting to date men whose ideology openly talks about raping, beating and enslaving them gets presented as mere difference in political opinion, akin to disagreeing on whether you like Pepsi or Coke more. The internet gave women a voice to speak of the abuse they endure and to reach other women either to warn them, or who've also experienced the same thing and been gaslit all their lives about it. It also gave them more insight into the extent of misogyny and depravity in male communities. The male reaction ofc is to claim victim status because their victims are pushing back on being oppressed.

Some other observations:

Quote:A higher share of Gen Z men (72%) than Gen Z women (56%) say transgender women should not be allowed to play female sports.

For anyone that's been involved in progressive communities, this shouldn't come as a surprise. I think some GC people portray the trans issue as being mostly enforced by men, when in reality it's an army of handmaidens pushing male-centering ideas heralded by men because of a superficial veneer of trans being associated with women. You can see similar biases with libfems being super fixated on drag queens and gay men (not even necessarily feminine ones, but gay=feminine by popular association) rather than lesbians. Because of power dynamics, men don't even need to make up a mainstream majority for women to center them and make it all about them.

Quote:Three in four Gen Z women disagree that the country would be stronger if women held traditional roles, with 58% strongly disagreeing. While 59% of Gen Z men also disagree with that sentiment, only a third say they strongly disagree.

So many men won't go full MRA straight up, but will kinda just shrug about it, because most men really just don't give a shit about women. That's why #NotAllMen is such bullshit. It's not about the 1 bad man who does bad things, it's about all the men around him, the "normal, good" men who enable and straight up support him. It's frustrating that to most women, the bar for a decent man is still just "He doesn't go on male supremacist rants", rather than "He goes on rants against misogyny". Men see male supremacism as a women's issue, rather than men's, and they won't actually give a shit about just how limiting that is to their partners' lives, someone they're supposed to love.

Speaking of:

Quote:The share of Gen Z women who say abortion is their top issue (16%) is more than double any other age range. Meanwhile, 4% of Gen Z men say abortion is the most important issue to them.

You would think, what with all the male whining over women "trapping" men and men having to pay child support, that men would be more concerned about what would happen if their partner got pregnant, because it has the potential to uproot their whole life. Not only do men do the usual thing of not giving a shit about their female partner's well-being, they also don't seem to recognise how heavily this impacts them just because it's associated with women.

It's also telling that men will only mention isolated women's issues when it pertains to their male or white supremacism. More men are concerned with weak beta males getting into women's spaces and damaging their property or unfairly getting to leer at women in exchange for the humiliation of wearing clothes with cooties, than the actual harm these men are causing to women.

Quote:More young men (69%) agree there are only two genders, while about half (51%) of young women say the same.

"There are only two genders" seems to have become a lazy catchphrase for these men because they can't seem to contribute anything useful beyond that. They're ironically the types who will push the idea that one's degree of maleness or femaleness is impacted by their performance of gender roles. It's still depressing that half of women don't live in reality. I really think it's the force teaming that trans has done via gay->drag->femininity->WHAT ABOUT THE MENS route. Meanwhile more of the normie men would feel passionate and angry about beta [trans-slur] men hogging up all the attention away from REAL MEN, than any of the harm that women experience at the hands of men, ALL men, that trans-identified men are but a small part of.
Edited May 2 2025, 6:09 AM by YesYourNigel.
YesYourNigel
May 2 2025, 6:01 AM #5

It pisses me off when women not wanting to date men whose ideology openly talks about raping, beating and enslaving them gets presented as mere difference in political opinion, akin to disagreeing on whether you like Pepsi or Coke more. The internet gave women a voice to speak of the abuse they endure and to reach other women either to warn them, or who've also experienced the same thing and been gaslit all their lives about it. It also gave them more insight into the extent of misogyny and depravity in male communities. The male reaction ofc is to claim victim status because their victims are pushing back on being oppressed.

Some other observations:

Quote:A higher share of Gen Z men (72%) than Gen Z women (56%) say transgender women should not be allowed to play female sports.

For anyone that's been involved in progressive communities, this shouldn't come as a surprise. I think some GC people portray the trans issue as being mostly enforced by men, when in reality it's an army of handmaidens pushing male-centering ideas heralded by men because of a superficial veneer of trans being associated with women. You can see similar biases with libfems being super fixated on drag queens and gay men (not even necessarily feminine ones, but gay=feminine by popular association) rather than lesbians. Because of power dynamics, men don't even need to make up a mainstream majority for women to center them and make it all about them.

Quote:Three in four Gen Z women disagree that the country would be stronger if women held traditional roles, with 58% strongly disagreeing. While 59% of Gen Z men also disagree with that sentiment, only a third say they strongly disagree.

So many men won't go full MRA straight up, but will kinda just shrug about it, because most men really just don't give a shit about women. That's why #NotAllMen is such bullshit. It's not about the 1 bad man who does bad things, it's about all the men around him, the "normal, good" men who enable and straight up support him. It's frustrating that to most women, the bar for a decent man is still just "He doesn't go on male supremacist rants", rather than "He goes on rants against misogyny". Men see male supremacism as a women's issue, rather than men's, and they won't actually give a shit about just how limiting that is to their partners' lives, someone they're supposed to love.

Speaking of:

Quote:The share of Gen Z women who say abortion is their top issue (16%) is more than double any other age range. Meanwhile, 4% of Gen Z men say abortion is the most important issue to them.

You would think, what with all the male whining over women "trapping" men and men having to pay child support, that men would be more concerned about what would happen if their partner got pregnant, because it has the potential to uproot their whole life. Not only do men do the usual thing of not giving a shit about their female partner's well-being, they also don't seem to recognise how heavily this impacts them just because it's associated with women.

It's also telling that men will only mention isolated women's issues when it pertains to their male or white supremacism. More men are concerned with weak beta males getting into women's spaces and damaging their property or unfairly getting to leer at women in exchange for the humiliation of wearing clothes with cooties, than the actual harm these men are causing to women.

Quote:More young men (69%) agree there are only two genders, while about half (51%) of young women say the same.

"There are only two genders" seems to have become a lazy catchphrase for these men because they can't seem to contribute anything useful beyond that. They're ironically the types who will push the idea that one's degree of maleness or femaleness is impacted by their performance of gender roles. It's still depressing that half of women don't live in reality. I really think it's the force teaming that trans has done via gay->drag->femininity->WHAT ABOUT THE MENS route. Meanwhile more of the normie men would feel passionate and angry about beta [trans-slur] men hogging up all the attention away from REAL MEN, than any of the harm that women experience at the hands of men, ALL men, that trans-identified men are but a small part of.

May 4 2025, 3:36 AM
#6
(May 2 2025, 6:01 AM)YesYourNigel So many men won't go full MRA straight up, but will kinda just shrug about it, because most men really just don't give a shit about women.

I think a lot of "good" men kinda see us as pets. They love us, and are shocked when other people abuse their pets, but ultimately understand that not all countries have the same view of animal rights that they have, and if some cultures beat their dogs and women, well that is their business.
Edited May 4 2025, 3:36 AM by amareldys.
amareldys
May 4 2025, 3:36 AM #6

(May 2 2025, 6:01 AM)YesYourNigel So many men won't go full MRA straight up, but will kinda just shrug about it, because most men really just don't give a shit about women.

I think a lot of "good" men kinda see us as pets. They love us, and are shocked when other people abuse their pets, but ultimately understand that not all countries have the same view of animal rights that they have, and if some cultures beat their dogs and women, well that is their business.

May 4 2025, 8:21 AM
#7
(May 4 2025, 3:36 AM)amareldys I think a lot of "good" men kinda see us as pets. They love us, and are shocked when other people abuse their pets, but ultimately understand that not all countries have the same view of animal rights that they have, and if some cultures beat their dogs and women, well that is their business.

I'd take it a step further and say that a lot of men, good and bad, see us as property. Not even in the sense that they would declare "you are my property" where it's a conscious thought, but that the feelings they have toward us are more or less like how they view things they've acquired and own. Some things they treat well, others not so much, they get defensive about their property, and another man's property is that man's business.
Elsacat
May 4 2025, 8:21 AM #7

(May 4 2025, 3:36 AM)amareldys I think a lot of "good" men kinda see us as pets. They love us, and are shocked when other people abuse their pets, but ultimately understand that not all countries have the same view of animal rights that they have, and if some cultures beat their dogs and women, well that is their business.

I'd take it a step further and say that a lot of men, good and bad, see us as property. Not even in the sense that they would declare "you are my property" where it's a conscious thought, but that the feelings they have toward us are more or less like how they view things they've acquired and own. Some things they treat well, others not so much, they get defensive about their property, and another man's property is that man's business.

May 9 2025, 11:06 AM
#8
(May 4 2025, 8:21 AM)Elsacat
(May 4 2025, 3:36 AM)amareldys I think a lot of "good" men kinda see us as pets. They love us, and are shocked when other people abuse their pets, but ultimately understand that not all countries have the same view of animal rights that they have, and if some cultures beat their dogs and women, well that is their business.

I'd take it a step further and say that a lot of men, good and bad, see us as property. Not even in the sense that they would declare "you are my property" where it's a conscious thought, but that the feelings they have toward us are more or less like how they view things they've acquired and own. Some things they treat well, others not so much, they get defensive about their property, and another man's property is that man's business.

Is there any way to effectively spread this awareness to other women that you all have found? It seems like men try to frame it as exaggeration, but the way you've explained this is very nuanced, and I think would help other women (would have helped me, certainly) understand the whole picture where "good" and "bad" men (as men have framed themselves) may appear superficially different, but all have this in common...
Edited May 9 2025, 11:16 AM by Irinka8347.
Irinka8347
May 9 2025, 11:06 AM #8

(May 4 2025, 8:21 AM)Elsacat
(May 4 2025, 3:36 AM)amareldys I think a lot of "good" men kinda see us as pets. They love us, and are shocked when other people abuse their pets, but ultimately understand that not all countries have the same view of animal rights that they have, and if some cultures beat their dogs and women, well that is their business.

I'd take it a step further and say that a lot of men, good and bad, see us as property. Not even in the sense that they would declare "you are my property" where it's a conscious thought, but that the feelings they have toward us are more or less like how they view things they've acquired and own. Some things they treat well, others not so much, they get defensive about their property, and another man's property is that man's business.

Is there any way to effectively spread this awareness to other women that you all have found? It seems like men try to frame it as exaggeration, but the way you've explained this is very nuanced, and I think would help other women (would have helped me, certainly) understand the whole picture where "good" and "bad" men (as men have framed themselves) may appear superficially different, but all have this in common...

May 9 2025, 4:19 PM
#9
(May 4 2025, 3:36 AM)amareldys
(May 2 2025, 6:01 AM)YesYourNigel So many men won't go full MRA straight up, but will kinda just shrug about it, because most men really just don't give a shit about women.

I think a lot of "good" men kinda see us as pets. They love us, and are shocked when other people abuse their pets, but ultimately understand that not all countries have the same view of animal rights that they have, and if some cultures beat their dogs and women, well that is their business.
I do find that "pets" communicates the fact that these men can be attached to their property the same way they can be to their pets (as opposed to the stereotypical image of a perpetually angry yelling misogynist), but that doesn't mean they'll be, say, against having animals grow up in cages barely able to move only to be sent to the meat grinder and eaten by them. The idealised wife is pretty close to a pet (or at least a dog - man's best friend, wink wink) - must be unconditionally loving, submissive and obedient no matter what you throw at her. Such an extremely naive, child-like and "pure" fawning machine, with no hint of anything that might be construed as challenging, that even heartless assholes might feel bad about raising a hand at her. This is how most people like to imagine victims of domestic violence. Women who want nothing but to serve their man obediently but are prevented in their noble pursuit by the man's self-defeating anger issues.

But "pet" doesn't quite capture how utilitarian the relationship is. In fact the key difference between pets and regular farm animals is that they are decidedly non-utilitarian. A woman, however, needs to serve and provide for the man's desires, from active servitude to physical attractiveness, in order to be loved.

A relationship that most men, even benevolent ones, have to their female partners is like what they might have for their car. You can love your car and get angry when it breaks down, but you're not angry for the car's sake. You know it doesn't have feelings or rights or independence. It exists to serve your needs and look good for you (and others) and you don't care about it beyond that.

I've heard someone once say that men see their families as "accessories", and I quite like that description.
Edited May 9 2025, 6:12 PM by YesYourNigel.

I refuse to debate two obvious facts: 1. the patriarchy exists 2. and that's a bad thing
YesYourNigel
May 9 2025, 4:19 PM #9

(May 4 2025, 3:36 AM)amareldys
(May 2 2025, 6:01 AM)YesYourNigel So many men won't go full MRA straight up, but will kinda just shrug about it, because most men really just don't give a shit about women.

I think a lot of "good" men kinda see us as pets. They love us, and are shocked when other people abuse their pets, but ultimately understand that not all countries have the same view of animal rights that they have, and if some cultures beat their dogs and women, well that is their business.
I do find that "pets" communicates the fact that these men can be attached to their property the same way they can be to their pets (as opposed to the stereotypical image of a perpetually angry yelling misogynist), but that doesn't mean they'll be, say, against having animals grow up in cages barely able to move only to be sent to the meat grinder and eaten by them. The idealised wife is pretty close to a pet (or at least a dog - man's best friend, wink wink) - must be unconditionally loving, submissive and obedient no matter what you throw at her. Such an extremely naive, child-like and "pure" fawning machine, with no hint of anything that might be construed as challenging, that even heartless assholes might feel bad about raising a hand at her. This is how most people like to imagine victims of domestic violence. Women who want nothing but to serve their man obediently but are prevented in their noble pursuit by the man's self-defeating anger issues.

But "pet" doesn't quite capture how utilitarian the relationship is. In fact the key difference between pets and regular farm animals is that they are decidedly non-utilitarian. A woman, however, needs to serve and provide for the man's desires, from active servitude to physical attractiveness, in order to be loved.

A relationship that most men, even benevolent ones, have to their female partners is like what they might have for their car. You can love your car and get angry when it breaks down, but you're not angry for the car's sake. You know it doesn't have feelings or rights or independence. It exists to serve your needs and look good for you (and others) and you don't care about it beyond that.

I've heard someone once say that men see their families as "accessories", and I quite like that description.


I refuse to debate two obvious facts: 1. the patriarchy exists 2. and that's a bad thing

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