It’s the porn, stupid.

clovenhooves The Personal Is Political General It’s the porn, stupid.

It’s the porn, stupid.

It’s the porn, stupid.

wormwood

76

Aug 2 2025, 8:54 AM

#1

Here we are days deep into yet another “crisis of masculinity” crisis of commentary.

Oh dear, what to do about boys?

Why are they soo keen on fascism, the boys?

Will no-one have compassion for the boys?

Yes, the manosphere is evil but at least it acknowledges the unhappiness of boys!

At least this time around there’s a decent bit of “the manosphere is evil”. Which it is.

And there’s a heartening number of men proclaiming that women are actually fully human, not anti-loneliness sex dispensers for sad men, and that the fix for the social problem of boys being rage-filled destructive little shits who revere the worst men on the planet is not for girls to put out more.
(Kiss the toad, even if he is gross and scary, and he might yet become a prince!)

But I do not think I have seen even one Nice Lefty Dude hint that possibly, growing up with a phone in your pocket that streams nonstop female degradation might have anything at all to do with turning 18 and thinking Andrew Tate is cool, young women should be abject objects of your gratification, and Donald Trump would make a good president.

It’s. The. Porn.

wormwood

Aug 2 2025, 8:54 AM #1

Here we are days deep into yet another “crisis of masculinity” crisis of commentary.

Oh dear, what to do about boys?

Why are they soo keen on fascism, the boys?

Will no-one have compassion for the boys?

Yes, the manosphere is evil but at least it acknowledges the unhappiness of boys!

At least this time around there’s a decent bit of “the manosphere is evil”. Which it is.

And there’s a heartening number of men proclaiming that women are actually fully human, not anti-loneliness sex dispensers for sad men, and that the fix for the social problem of boys being rage-filled destructive little shits who revere the worst men on the planet is not for girls to put out more.
(Kiss the toad, even if he is gross and scary, and he might yet become a prince!)

But I do not think I have seen even one Nice Lefty Dude hint that possibly, growing up with a phone in your pocket that streams nonstop female degradation might have anything at all to do with turning 18 and thinking Andrew Tate is cool, young women should be abject objects of your gratification, and Donald Trump would make a good president.

It’s. The. Porn.

Berry

33

Aug 2 2025, 9:44 AM

#2

Thank you. I feel like I'm going insane seeing all these people defend children watching porn (in light of the recent UK law requiring age verification) as if it isn't the direct cause of the shift towards conservatism and increase on sexual violence

Berry

Aug 2 2025, 9:44 AM #2

Thank you. I feel like I'm going insane seeing all these people defend children watching porn (in light of the recent UK law requiring age verification) as if it isn't the direct cause of the shift towards conservatism and increase on sexual violence

YesYourNigel

239

Aug 3 2025, 5:35 AM

#3

You think porn directly causes the shift into the manosphere? I don't think so. Porn has been a thing for a while and the shift has only recently started happening. It definitely contributes but let's not pretend that male supremacist tendencies aren't there in every facet of life that is then easily exploited. Porn amplifies a few aspects of what boys are primed to be, rather than creating it out of thin air.

In my Eastern European country, hearing redpill-style objectification and talk about women is normal. This misogyny didn't need porn or podcasts to appear, it was already there. There was a slight shift in the West towards acting more enlightened in regards to women but it was always unstable and bound to bring most men along kicking and screaming, because this isn't how they're primed to think. The state of men not being full on incels is what is exceptional, rather than them predictably sliding back into it.

It seems much more likely that the shift is fueled by liberal feminism going mainstream and being injected into popular media, and it being a bad look to have stripperific female "characters" in every piece of media (and instead only some of them). Some men have always thought objectifying women is kinda gauche because male thought sometimes emphasises the importance of being something more productive and authoritative than a chronic masturbator or a violent unhinged nutcase, but that doesn't necessarily translate into feminism so ofc the conclusion is more "Cut down on porn because it's cutting into your masculine productivity" rather than "cut down on porn because it's misogynistic". Men don't want to let go of their ownership of women, they just differ in how enlightened and dignified they want it to be.

Edited Aug 3 2025, 5:44 AM by YesYourNigel.

YesYourNigel

Aug 3 2025, 5:35 AM #3

You think porn directly causes the shift into the manosphere? I don't think so. Porn has been a thing for a while and the shift has only recently started happening. It definitely contributes but let's not pretend that male supremacist tendencies aren't there in every facet of life that is then easily exploited. Porn amplifies a few aspects of what boys are primed to be, rather than creating it out of thin air.

In my Eastern European country, hearing redpill-style objectification and talk about women is normal. This misogyny didn't need porn or podcasts to appear, it was already there. There was a slight shift in the West towards acting more enlightened in regards to women but it was always unstable and bound to bring most men along kicking and screaming, because this isn't how they're primed to think. The state of men not being full on incels is what is exceptional, rather than them predictably sliding back into it.

It seems much more likely that the shift is fueled by liberal feminism going mainstream and being injected into popular media, and it being a bad look to have stripperific female "characters" in every piece of media (and instead only some of them). Some men have always thought objectifying women is kinda gauche because male thought sometimes emphasises the importance of being something more productive and authoritative than a chronic masturbator or a violent unhinged nutcase, but that doesn't necessarily translate into feminism so ofc the conclusion is more "Cut down on porn because it's cutting into your masculine productivity" rather than "cut down on porn because it's misogynistic". Men don't want to let go of their ownership of women, they just differ in how enlightened and dignified they want it to be.

wormwood

76

Aug 3 2025, 7:53 AM

#4

I’m from an Eastern European country myself, one with an extremely unequal culture, in which women are, by European standards, dramatically underrepresented in every field that wields power. Three generations ago, so-called “honour killings” were fairly common, women did not have the vote, and a very patriarchal family arrangement was universal. Well into my adulthood street harassment was endemic, and impressively sexist language and behaviour is still common in from political and media figures.

Obviously misogyny runs deep, but things were getting better.

There are many women doctors now - there were barely any when I was growing up. Men of my generation (I’m in my fifties) were a lot more involved in the raising of their children than their fathers were, and does more housework. Sexist language and behaviour is widely criticised, where once it was the norm. These are just a few examples - every generation of men I knew was a little more egalitarian than the last.
That last sentence seems to hold true across Europe. Until Generation Z, the 24 hour streaming porn generation, the young men who grew up in a world where everyone had pretty near constant access to images extremely graphic sexual exploitation, as well as to the gaming and lifestyle streamers and various misogyny forums we call the manosphere.

Yes, I think Zoomers are more misogynist than they would be if they hadn’t had this stuff marketed at them.

I don’t think you’re wrong about the mainstream media representation of women, though. It just seems to me that backlash against greater equality in entertainment (and in the workplace for that matter) is driven by previous generations, the millennials, Xers and their older brothers. They are the ones who feel their dignity is in peril as the increasing economic power of women meets the increasingly low rewards and precariousness of the workplace (late capitalism) combine to turn their resentment ever more toxic. The porn-and-other-misogyny producers.

That’s how I see it. But hey, I’m not looking at statistics or anything, just observing social media and the people I know.

wormwood

Aug 3 2025, 7:53 AM #4

I’m from an Eastern European country myself, one with an extremely unequal culture, in which women are, by European standards, dramatically underrepresented in every field that wields power. Three generations ago, so-called “honour killings” were fairly common, women did not have the vote, and a very patriarchal family arrangement was universal. Well into my adulthood street harassment was endemic, and impressively sexist language and behaviour is still common in from political and media figures.

Obviously misogyny runs deep, but things were getting better.

There are many women doctors now - there were barely any when I was growing up. Men of my generation (I’m in my fifties) were a lot more involved in the raising of their children than their fathers were, and does more housework. Sexist language and behaviour is widely criticised, where once it was the norm. These are just a few examples - every generation of men I knew was a little more egalitarian than the last.
That last sentence seems to hold true across Europe. Until Generation Z, the 24 hour streaming porn generation, the young men who grew up in a world where everyone had pretty near constant access to images extremely graphic sexual exploitation, as well as to the gaming and lifestyle streamers and various misogyny forums we call the manosphere.

Yes, I think Zoomers are more misogynist than they would be if they hadn’t had this stuff marketed at them.

I don’t think you’re wrong about the mainstream media representation of women, though. It just seems to me that backlash against greater equality in entertainment (and in the workplace for that matter) is driven by previous generations, the millennials, Xers and their older brothers. They are the ones who feel their dignity is in peril as the increasing economic power of women meets the increasingly low rewards and precariousness of the workplace (late capitalism) combine to turn their resentment ever more toxic. The porn-and-other-misogyny producers.

That’s how I see it. But hey, I’m not looking at statistics or anything, just observing social media and the people I know.

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