How to feel about draft/conscription for women?

clovenhooves The Personal Is Political General Discussion How to feel about draft/conscription for women?

Discussion How to feel about draft/conscription for women?

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Mar 17 2025, 2:17 AM

This is about the general concept, and not about particular countries and what their respective actual rules around this are. Where I live there's a lot of talk about the threat from Russia and whether we'll get into a war, and of course, self-pitying manchildren insist on a female draft for eQuAlItY. If they get drafted, women should, too, they say.

I personally see this as an example where you as a woman just cannot ''win''.

In peace time, we don't want women in the army because they're weak and slow and they'll kill their teammates by being weak and slow and a burden.
Another thing: They want women to join the army, but they're lukewarm or against organizations that stand up for women in the army, such as those trying to fight against the huge endemic rape issues in the armed forces, sexism, and all of that. So, support the troops, get women into the army, but do very little to stop treating them like absolute shit. This is similar to ''wHy DoN't WoMeN wOrK iN tHe MiNeS'' when as soon as a woman enters into such a job she's harrassed and bullied to the point of being forced out.
Women should stay home and have babies but if they do, they're lazy parasites while their man goes to die for them.

Those are just a few of the hypocritical stances that I see. However, they insist on drafting women (which immediately comes up as soon as war is mentioned) for ''equality'', and they seem to believe that we're more than ''equal'' already. I think it's odd that they seem to forget that there're already women in the army and we're alreadt incapable of handling THAT situation well, with all the sexual and other abuse problems.

If WW3 broke out and women had to fight, men wouldn't respect us more. Men fucking hate us and they feel ike pitiful victims now that we have a few rights and they can't unfairly suppress us like in the past, they don't have the ultimate cheat code to get ahead anymore, (just forcing us into the kitchen) they whine like little babies because now they actually have to try to be the best at things, such as academics. They see it as female privilege and you can bet that they wouldn't stop whining and hating us after the war. If anything, they'll abandon us when we come home disfigured.

There's nothing to gain here for women. We'll be raped either way, as civilians, or as POWs. We'll be abused by our own forces as well as the enemy's forces. Then we can go back home afterwards, traumatized, addicted, severely mentally ill and physically injured, to pop out babies and continue doing 80% of the domestic labor. After we've been in the trenches we'll still have to let our bodies get ravaged by childbirth and our energy drained by childcare and we'll still be compared to the freshest batch of 18-year-old porn/social media models. And of course we have to work, as we do now.

Even our legacy as soldiers and war heroines wouldn't be safe, as we see what happens now in the US with brave women's names being disappeared. I won't even get into ''women don't want this war'', that's because most men don't want it either. If a full-out war happened and women were indeed forced to fight, I think the resulting feminist wave would be impressive, though.

What do you think about this subject?

Wandering_Feminist56

Mar 17 2025, 2:17 AM #1

In peace time, we don't want women in the army because they're weak and slow and they'll kill their teammates by being weak and slow and a burden.
Another thing: They want women to join the army, but they're lukewarm or against organizations that stand up for women in the army, such as those trying to fight against the huge endemic rape issues in the armed forces, sexism, and all of that. So, support the troops, get women into the army, but do very little to stop treating them like absolute shit. This is similar to ''wHy DoN't WoMeN wOrK iN tHe MiNeS'' when as soon as a woman enters into such a job she's harrassed and bullied to the point of being forced out.
Women should stay home and have babies but if they do, they're lazy parasites while their man goes to die for them.

YesYourNigel

134

Mar 17 2025, 8:08 AM

I honestly find forced conscription in general a very inhumane unethical thing to do. I don't see how one can justify forcing people to fight for a country if they don't want to. Maybe one can say it's needed to push back against the countries that do force conscription to avoid the paradox of tolerance where ethics get you steamrolled? Most wars seem to result from volatile men's dick-measuring contests and as such have little appeal to women. Men brainlessly like them because they are prone to extremist herd mentality.

I will say that if war were to happen, it's less likely women would be directly involved in combat, both because men are usually physically the better choice, but also because the vast majority of roles in the army (80-90%) are non-combat. People overestimate how many soldiers actually fight in wars.

And yes, the male pissbabies will pretend-complain about gender inequality while fighting tooth and nail to maintain it and sabotaging any attempts to actually deal with a problem. The examples are too numerous to mention but another one is men whining about how hard it is for men to have to be breadwinners and take the lead, while adamantly refusing to do anything to make themselves more attractive and complaining endlessly about how unfair any programs that try to increase female representation and wage inequality are. Also men saying that men are biologically incapable of civilised behaviour and then getting furious when biological solutions get offered to that (not birthing men or hormone therapy). The point is always that lulz boys will be boys, hence why they gawk at even an attempt to solve any supposed "problem" - they know it's all privileges for them.

Edited Mar 17 2025, 8:11 AM by YesYourNigel.

YesYourNigel

Mar 17 2025, 8:08 AM #2

Elsacat

223

Mar 17 2025, 8:15 AM

I don't like forced conscription. It's military indentured servitude at best, slavery at worst, and a very high price in wartime.

Men love to be hypocrites on this subject, complaining about women being in the military and being forced to serve alongside them, while also complaining they're not subject to the draft. Which is it, boys? Pick a lane.

It's hard not to see it as anything other than men complaining about women being women.

Elsacat

Mar 17 2025, 8:15 AM #3

Possum
angry lesbian 🌈

Mar 17 2025, 9:15 AM

I don't have a moral issue with drafting IF the country is facing a genuine existential threat. Drafting isn't ideal but I think in most cases fighting back is better than rolling over and accepting a foreign occupation. Especially in our modern political climate, I think a country that goes against the current status quo of NOT invading neighbours probably can't be trusted to occupy a country without committing serious crimes against the occupied population. I support the draft in Ukraine because I worry an unopposed Russian occupation would be worse for Ukraine civilians than a war, so extreme measures like conscription may be a necessary evil.

I don't support drafting women because women are in as much danger from their own soldiers as enemy soldiers. IF military culture sorted itself out and stopped raping female personnel I would be fine with an equal draft (again, assuming it was for a genuine threat and not just a draft to go fuck around in Iraq for no reason), but I think we're a very long way away from that happening. I would support finding other ways to "draft" women into the war effort that don't involve the risk of being abused by her colleagues. Basically, I would never support conscripting a woman to go join a platoon where she is likely to be raped by her own colleagues or superiors. I would probably support something like women being "conscripted" to work X volunteer hours per week at the drone factory or something to support the war effort.

Possum

angry lesbian 🌈

Mar 17 2025, 9:15 AM #4

hatpin

Mar 21 2025, 10:06 PM

I feel women are already conscripted in carrying children, especially where there are no reproductive rights, or access to contraception. So many have/will die in childbirth, we don't need to risk sisters to men's wars.

Edited Mar 21 2025, 10:07 PM by hatpin.

hatpin

Mar 21 2025, 10:06 PM #5

wormwood

Mar 21 2025, 11:39 PM

I don’t like forced conscription, but I live in a country where young men are compelled to do a period of military service and young women aren’t. We are always under threat of invasion, and I don’t think military service will be abolished anytime soon. Historically, when the country has been at war, women have served as nurses. Now of course we also have many women doctors, possibly more than men.

I do feel that making women exempt from a duty of citizenship in this way is somehow condescending, frames us as more delicate creatures.

I think if we are to have a period of military training, there should be separate corps with a female command structure and separate barracks for women. These would do some joint exercises with the male troops, but under their own commanders, the way different countries do joint military exercises. I believe this would be the way to do it, but it would require such a radical rethink of our army and society that they will abolish military service for men first.

If we are invaded again in my lifetime, an ever-increasing possibility due to the rise of authoritarianism and the breakdown of alliances and the international order, I don’t think women will be drafted except as medical personnel and in other non combat roles. They might be housed separately to the extent that it would be organised by specialty, not by sex - communications, logistics, medical etc, but they would still be at great risk of sexual violence from the men who shared their spaces. But then my country rarely even pretends to care about women’s safety from men.

wormwood

Mar 21 2025, 11:39 PM #6

YesYourNigel

134

Mar 22 2025, 6:56 AM

(Mar 17 2025, 9:15 AM)Possum I don't have a moral issue with drafting IF the country is facing a genuine existential threat. Drafting isn't ideal but I think in most cases fighting back is better than rolling over and accepting a foreign occupation. Especially in our modern political climate, I think a country that goes against the current status quo of NOT invading neighbours probably can't be trusted to occupy a country without committing serious crimes against the occupied population. I support the draft in Ukraine because I worry an unopposed Russian occupation would be worse for Ukraine civilians than a war, so extreme measures like conscription may be a necessary evil.

Shouldn't the people be allowed to make that decision, though? Instead of the country itself. If people truly don't want to be put through that, wouldn't they volunteer on their own? Or is that libertarian thinking?

Edited Mar 22 2025, 6:57 AM by YesYourNigel.

I refuse to debate two obvious facts: 1. the patriarchy exists 2. and that's a bad thing

YesYourNigel

Mar 22 2025, 6:56 AM #7

(Mar 17 2025, 9:15 AM)Possum I don't have a moral issue with drafting IF the country is facing a genuine existential threat. Drafting isn't ideal but I think in most cases fighting back is better than rolling over and accepting a foreign occupation. Especially in our modern political climate, I think a country that goes against the current status quo of NOT invading neighbours probably can't be trusted to occupy a country without committing serious crimes against the occupied population. I support the draft in Ukraine because I worry an unopposed Russian occupation would be worse for Ukraine civilians than a war, so extreme measures like conscription may be a necessary evil.

I refuse to debate two obvious facts: 1. the patriarchy exists 2. and that's a bad thing

Lemonade

Mar 22 2025, 8:48 AM

I can speak only from an American perspective, which I know tints my opinion on this topic. I don't want to make sweeping statements that don't apply in other countries.

I am generally against the idea of conscription. I don't like the idea that people are just resources to be used by the elite as cannon fodder for their whims. Wars are usually the result of a pissing contest starting by at least one megalomaniac with enough bombs and soldiers to do so.

In the case of a genuine threat where defense is needed, I would expect a country with well cared for individuals wouldn't have trouble finding volunteers to fight for the lives of themselves and their community. People fight when they have reason to. But maybe I'm too idealistic, I don't know.

But I don't feel bad at all that in this country women don't have to apply for the selective service. We don't have equal representation in government. We don't have enough laws that allow us to equally participate in society. We don't have enough protections in the military to keep us safe from sexual abuses. Our lives shouldn't be equally on the line.

Men treat us condescendingly in all aspects of life. I'm going to fight for women to be seen as smart, strong, and capable in literally any other aspect of society first before we talk about forced war labor.

Lemonade

Mar 22 2025, 8:48 AM #8

periwinkle

Mar 22 2025, 11:08 AM

Lemonade But I don't feel bad at all that in this country women don't have to apply for the selective service. We don't have equal representation in government. We don't have enough laws that allow us to equally participate in society. We don't have enough protections in the military to keep us safe from sexual abuses. Our lives shouldn't be equally on the line.

Men treat us condescendingly in all aspects of life. I'm going to fight for women to be seen as smart, strong, and capable in literally any other aspect of society first before we talk about forced war labor.

This is exactly how I feel as well.

Women are already asked to take on soo much responsibility for their countries. They are expected to work, full time, and then to do most of the childcare and household work for no compensation (this even gets worse the more the women makes, in comparison to her male partner). Women are expected to have children for the betterment of their country’s economy and then denigrated as free-loaders and irresponsible welfare queens for wanting some kind of help. Women have little in the way of political representation, far more limited access to resources, money and property. They are subject to sexual and physical violations, by males, which we know is even worse in the military.

Women should not be expected to take on even more responsibility without some assurances of equal treatment and respect. Women do enough already.

I am also very much against the draft. I don’t think countries should have the right to kill their citizens, or to order their citizens to die. But if it must exist, then, no I don’t think women should be subject to it in male-dominated countries. I think the situation would (and should) be different if we actually had equality, where I would say that women and men should be equally subject to a draft (again, if one has to exist at all). But men would abolish the draft before they ever grant women full equality.

periwinkle

Mar 22 2025, 11:08 AM #9

Lemonade But I don't feel bad at all that in this country women don't have to apply for the selective service. We don't have equal representation in government. We don't have enough laws that allow us to equally participate in society. We don't have enough protections in the military to keep us safe from sexual abuses. Our lives shouldn't be equally on the line.

Men treat us condescendingly in all aspects of life. I'm going to fight for women to be seen as smart, strong, and capable in literally any other aspect of society first before we talk about forced war labor.

YesYourNigel

134

Mar 22 2025, 11:32 AM

#10

I will just add that I think there's some androcentrism in the assumption that, if men are drafted, women need to be too for the sake of "equality" when in fact it'd be just as equal to have the draft NOT be mandatory for men. But because we assume that men set the infallible, superior standard, we automatically assume women need to throw themselves under the bus to stoop to men's level instead of men working to get to women's level.

YesYourNigel

Mar 22 2025, 11:32 AM #10

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